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Author Topic:   Is God good?
Kairyu
Member
Posts: 162
From: netherlands
Joined: 06-23-2010


Message 180 of 722 (682945)
12-06-2012 8:48 AM
Reply to: Message 173 by jaywill
12-05-2012 8:40 PM


God's goodness in the Garden of Eden.
A foreign virus you say? I do not understand the ''tree'' of good and evil. God is omnipotent, yet perfectly good. The garden of Eden seemed like a stable setup, with the crown of His creation, 2 humans with a certain neutral innocence.
There's no need to explain what went wrong. In the garden, teahere was once condition. A object, a power to send everything of God's preferred way of things. A essence of knowledge of good and evil. I call it a essence, because fruit in general doesn't hold any kind of supernatural power. A gorgeous tree was created, and God bestowed upon the tree the knowledge between good and evil.
God could have created anything he wanted as a paradise. He does not have any sort of limitation that required him to put the essence of the knowledge of good and evil there. God didn't want Adam and Eve to obtain this essence. One could argue he presented a choice, but one of the choices was orginal sin, and humanity being cursed because of it, I do not really seem to see much point in presenting it. If God makes the Essence of the knowledge of Good and Evil accessible, he created a choice. What was God's will with this? He could have left it out of the garden all the same. Why bother with putting in something he would never wanted humanity to obtain in the first place? And suppose Adam and Eve never ended up eating the fruit, what would the purpose of this essence of good and evil being stored in the garden forever, never to be touched, but always present.
And his container for this was a fruit. He created humans to be able to consume fruit, and in fact, instructed them to consume anything in the garden if the pleased, expect the one tree He saw fit to grant the essence of the knownledge of good and evil. A edible container, a delicious fruit just.. being there. He could picked any container He wished. Unattractive looking fruit? Maybe something else entirely, a sacred shine with a floating light perhaps? That might not have changed the course of events of Genesis, but at least the essence of knownledge of good and evil would be more distinctively not meant for humans on a appearance basis.
The third factor is accessibility. To recap, God put the essence of the knownledge of good and evil in the garden. He chose to mold it in a edible fruit hanging in a tree. This makes it very easy to grab. It was well in Gods power to put a barrier there. Or a friendly angel gently guarding it from any harm, so the three would only be used for it's purpose, whatever it may be.
Most of all, God himself was aware of the garden at all times. He manifested himself as walking, but he still must have been in the whole garden at all times. He could have acted before the fruit was eaten. That he didn't, implies that He allowed free will on the matter. But when the act was done, then he decides to inform Adam and Eve of His wrath and grief. He didn't want this to happen, yet His course of actions can only been as making it a choice.
And finally, there was a catalyst for the events. Without the snake, it might have not have happened. There's debate if the snake was Satan or just one of the creations in the garden. If it was Satan, God let a foreign element that would upset the balance in the garden. If it was just a talking snake, what caused this snake to behave in this suicidal behaviour? Just malicious spite? Seems willingly evil, so the snake did already have some knowledge of it. Either way, both possibilities also lack any sure of protective measures.
What did God want with such a fragile setup? A instant condition of failure, easily reached in the form of a fruit, lacking any projection, or apparent function. And God has unlimited knowledge, and he also knows the feature, so He knew exactly how this garden design would end in. Yet the fact he warned once means the chain of events cannot be in any way attributed to Him? If he wanted to include a element of choice, did it have to be the concept taking to it's logical limit?
I cannot compromise these events being literal with perfect goodness and onnipotence of God. Not without God intending nothing of it. The exception of it's a huge masterplan of sorts, in which case it's all a act, and humanity is innocent. Yet, that obliviously isn't what the bible implies unless God is lying.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by jaywill, posted 12-05-2012 8:40 PM jaywill has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by jar, posted 12-06-2012 9:02 AM Kairyu has not replied

  
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