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Author Topic:   Is God good?
Panda
Member (Idle past 3713 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(1)
Message 186 of 722 (682983)
12-06-2012 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by jaywill
12-06-2012 9:28 AM


Re: Military Bravado
jaywill writes:
You have a monsterous and callous disregard for human beings in the early fetal stage of development. You are a monster to count a mosquito as of more value than a united human sperm and human egg.
Monster. Reserve some sorrow for yourself.
If passively disregarding the life of some unformed babies is evil, imagine how evil god must be to actually take an active role in killing MILLIONS of grown children!
There is not enough sorrow in the universe to reserve for the monster that is god.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by jaywill, posted 12-06-2012 9:28 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by jaywill, posted 12-06-2012 1:39 PM Panda has not replied
 Message 189 by jaywill, posted 12-06-2012 3:55 PM Panda has replied
 Message 197 by kofh2u, posted 12-06-2012 6:06 PM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3713 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(1)
Message 198 of 722 (683029)
12-06-2012 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by jaywill
12-06-2012 3:55 PM


Re: Military Bravado
jaywill writes:
If God is that bad then maybe you could answer me this:
How come in the book of Jonah God expresses concern about young ones being judged by Him who are not yet able to discern their left from their right hand ?
Perhaps you could explain how someone that intentionally kills millions of children is NOT evil?
I think that you can't - else you would have.
If Rahvin is evil for not caring about unformed children then god is evil because god intentionally killed MILLIONS of children.
Your own logic and morality condemns god's behaviour.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by jaywill, posted 12-06-2012 3:55 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by jaywill, posted 12-06-2012 6:58 PM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3713 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 199 of 722 (683030)
12-06-2012 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by kofh2u
12-06-2012 6:06 PM


Re: God is so good...
kofh2u writes:
This is silly.
Although it is nice of you to preface your reply with a summary, it is unnecessary.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by kofh2u, posted 12-06-2012 6:06 PM kofh2u has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3713 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(3)
Message 206 of 722 (683046)
12-06-2012 7:35 PM
Reply to: Message 201 by jaywill
12-06-2012 6:58 PM


Re: Military Bravado
jaywill writes:
My entire discussion on this thread has had the underlining ADMISSION that certain instances of God's judging I cannot easily understand or explain.
But you have no trouble calling Rahvin evil for a much lesser act.
Your special pleading has been noted - but that does not make it acceptable.
jaywill writes:
My faith, however, is like that of Abraham who challenged God whether He was going to judge the innocent along with the guilty
Then it is strange that god judged the innocent children as guilty and killed them.
jaywill writes:
So what have I done? I have offered valuable additional information to consider in our trying to evaluate some of the tougher instances of God's passing judgment.
So, how many nice things does god have to say to excuse his genocide?
Is it possible to do enough good deeds to 'undo' the deaths of so many?
jaywill writes:
It is evident that God cared about the 120,000 immature humans in the city He was about to judge - Nineveh. It is less logical to me that in this instance God cared but in other instances it was not a concern.
God killed MILLIONS of children.
By any definition of evil that you can provide, that makes him evil.
God then saying he cares about 120,000 children doesn't negate his mass slaughter.
jaywill writes:
I also want to believe that the ONLY reason we can speak of good verses evil is because we hold that there must be some transcendent scoring system or standard by which the level of goodness can be measured.
And, using your "transcendent scoring system or standard", god is evil.
jaywill writes:
Another question: If God was genocidal towards the killing of children WHY was He so against the sacrificing of the Canaanite children to their pagan gods?
Perhaps he is a sociopath? - Like an abusive spouse that says "I'm sorry I hurt you. I love you really, but you made me angry!"
At best: he is insane. At worse: he is evil.
There is no possibility that an omnipotent and omniscient god is both good AND kills millions of children.
jaywill writes:
If you do not have to consider these and other contributing facts in your assessment, I as a serious believer in God and Bible student must.
And those statements do not excuse the intentional deaths of millions of people.
jaywill writes:
Do I WANT to believe that God is good? Of course I do.
And I expect that there is nothing that god could do that would stop you from claiming he is good.
If genocide is not enough, I doubt anything would be.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by jaywill, posted 12-06-2012 6:58 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by jaywill, posted 12-07-2012 1:28 PM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3713 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(2)
Message 232 of 722 (683129)
12-07-2012 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by jaywill
12-07-2012 1:28 PM


I did do a long response, but I got to this sentence and changed my mind:
jaywill writes:
I view the total acts of God as not all being well understood by our limited view. My expectation is that they are all good acts. Some I do not yet understand.
You say are unable to explain the drowning of millions of people because you are unable to fully understand god.
Since you are unable to fully understand god, then all your other comments regarding his character are baseless assertions.
You do not know if god is good or evil - you simply assume he is good.
Anything he does that supports your assumption is claimed to be evidence of his good nature.
Anything he does that contradicts that assumption is marked as 'unknown'.
That is simply cherry-picking.
jaywill writes:
I'd like to see how you're so sure you can add all this up to "millions".
If you cannot supply definite statistics that add up to "milions" then don't, for emotional appeal, pull "millions" out of the air in ignorance.
Projection much?
The world population at ~4000BC was ~20 million.
Or are you going to claim that none of them were children?
jaywill writes:
As a matter of fact I think I will begin to hold you to more definite specifics. I want you to supply the specific passages which undoubtedly indicate the death of children.
I really don't KNOW that children died in the Flood.
And that is just bizarre.
Every living thing that moved on the earth perished--birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind.
Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died.
Your position is untenable.
Only by self-delusion can you twist (or ignore) what is written in the bible to support your idea of a perfect god.
Your confirmation bias is showing.
jaywill writes:
Panda writes:
And, using your "transcendent scoring system or standard", god is evil.
Like the little child who has to sit on its mother's lap in order to be able to reach her face to slap it, to a large degree you are borrowing a Christian world view in order to inform your outrage.
I was using your "transcendent scoring system or standard" of evil.
(You can tell that by me saying so and quoting you.)
If you wish to describe it as the view of a child, then so be it.
But god is still evil, by your own definition (excluding your special pleading).

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by jaywill, posted 12-07-2012 1:28 PM jaywill has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3713 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 245 of 722 (683153)
12-08-2012 12:58 AM
Reply to: Message 238 by Faith
12-07-2012 10:33 PM


Re: God IS good, it's YOU that's warped
Faith writes:
God IS good but you'll never see that as long as you insist on your own view of things. You are judging God according to your fallen nature, which is blind to the true situation in this world, so your judgment is wrong and if you go on sticking to it you will ultimately be condemned by it.
God IS evil but you'll never see that as long as you insist on your own view of things. You are judging God according to your fallen nature, which is blind to the true situation in this world, so your judgment is wrong and if you go on sticking to it you will ultimately be condemned by it.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by Faith, posted 12-07-2012 10:33 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by Faith, posted 12-08-2012 1:07 AM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3713 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 247 of 722 (683158)
12-08-2012 7:48 AM
Reply to: Message 246 by Faith
12-08-2012 1:07 AM


Re: God IS good, it's YOU that's warped
Faith writes:
Ah Panda, don't talk like that, it's clever to no good purpose.
Correct.
Intelligent rebuttals are wasted on you.
I suspect that my reply caused you serious mental discomfort, else you would have done what you normally do and just ignore it.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by Faith, posted 12-08-2012 1:07 AM Faith has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3713 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 339 of 722 (683387)
12-10-2012 6:02 AM
Reply to: Message 338 by Faith
12-10-2012 5:54 AM


Re: Is God Good? & MAINSTREAM BASIC BIBLE CHRISTIANITY
Faith writes:
Tangle writes:
When God killed all animal and plant life on the planet - including the children who could not be guilty of any sin - he committed an evil act by any definition at all - even yours.
That's a lie invented by a morally challenged fallen human being...
Correct.
It is from the bible.
Or are you (like Jaywill) claiming that children weren't drowned during the flood?
Faith writes:
And Noah PREACHED TO THEM THAT THEY COULD BE SAVED AND THEY ALL REFUSED.
Yeah!
Those pesky babies and their defiant, anti-god protests!
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 338 by Faith, posted 12-10-2012 5:54 AM Faith has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3713 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(2)
Message 354 of 722 (683456)
12-10-2012 6:02 PM
Reply to: Message 351 by Phat
12-10-2012 3:12 PM


Re: Causes of death and opportunities for relationship
Phat writes:
Newborn babies are not accountable to anyone...if they die they die.
Imagine that someone had killed your neighbours' newborn.
What would the reaction be if you said: "Newborn babies are not accountable to anyone...if they die they die."
What do you think your neighbours would feel if you said that to them?
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 351 by Phat, posted 12-10-2012 3:12 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3713 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(1)
Message 488 of 722 (684179)
12-16-2012 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 486 by jaywill
12-16-2012 8:31 AM


Re: Darwin's theory DID enfluence Nazis,
jaywill writes:
Edited by jaywill, 12-16-2012 1:33 PM: No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, 12-16-2012 1:34 PM: No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, 12-16-2012 1:37 PM: No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, 12-16-2012 1:38 PM: No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, 12-16-2012 1:42 PM: No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, 12-16-2012 1:43 PM: No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, 12-16-2012 1:44 PM: No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, 12-16-2012 1:45 PM: No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, 12-16-2012 1:52 PM: No reason given.
There is a 'Preview' button for a reason.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 486 by jaywill, posted 12-16-2012 8:31 AM jaywill has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3713 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 539 of 722 (684622)
12-18-2012 7:04 AM
Reply to: Message 538 by NoNukes
12-18-2012 12:45 AM


Re: Goodness Demands Justice
NN writes:
My problem with Jar's take is that even taking the story as a myth, one might well wonder the value in a story that makes a monotheistic God seem unjust.
It is a common bullying tactic: hit people if they don't do what you tell them and hit them if they do.
It is a good way to keep people scared and confused, because they don't know what is right or wrong anymore.
Instead, they wait to be told.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 538 by NoNukes, posted 12-18-2012 12:45 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
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