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Author Topic:   Is God good?
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 676 of 722 (685860)
12-27-2012 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 675 by jaywill
12-27-2012 4:49 PM


jaywill's pitiful little worthless tyrant of a god
Man is offended at the very thought of eternal punishment.
Bullshit. Only a pitiful little worthless tyrant of a god would even consider anything like eternal punishment. Such a god is certainly worth of nothing more than contempt.
Edited by jar, : fix sub-title

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 675 by jaywill, posted 12-27-2012 4:49 PM jaywill has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 677 of 722 (685878)
12-27-2012 7:14 PM


The eternal fire was prepared not for man but for the devil and his angels.
"Then He will say also to those on the left, Go away from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." (Matt. 25:41)
... And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." (v.46)
The strong implications of these passages include these matters.
1.) The eternal fire which is the eternal punishment was prepared for the devil and his angels.
2.) The fact that these human beings go there is a tragic testimony of how they have been used and deceived by the devil to their own ruination. Because before he and his angels are there, they go in before him.
This could be implied in that the punishment is "prepared" for them, indicating that they have not yet been put there.
2.) That they go into the punishment prepared for the devil and his angels strongly indicates that they have been duped to the uttermost by following their leader the devil.
3.) Their destiny is the co-destiny of their leader the devil. Therefore to believe into Christ must be the ultimate renunciation of the Devil.
To believe into Christ is declare the Son of God as the Leader. And therefore to share the glorious destiny of the Son of God. Else the sinner will share the miserable destiny of the other leader Satan.
Two leaders = two destinies. One glorious and the other dreadful and miserable.
We need to be brought OUT of one leader's kingdom and placed INTO the kingdom of the other Leader.
This is not a strict interpretation of Matthew 25:41,46. There is more involved there. This is deriving important concepts from the teaching there.
John 3:35,36 - The Father loves the Son and has given all into His hand. He who believes into the Son has eternal life; but he who disobeys the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides upon him."
quote:
" ... Already the wrath of God is upon him, because of his unbelief. It will be upon him after death; for his character as an unbeliever is an abiding one. It will continue on him as long as he continues in his sin; that is, for ever. It "abides on him." That is, the person on whom the wrath is now, continues to exist. Wrath cannot rest on that which is not. Wrath will be ever called up, not only by his deeds but by his character. As when God's wrath abides without a break on the unbeliever, the unbeliever will not cease to exist." (Robert Govett)
So man needs not only justification but transformation. The Bible warns of being frozen in a certain state as undesirable. But to be transformed by sanctification suitable for the New Jerusalem is desireable -
"Let him who does unrighteousness do unrighteousness still; and let him who is filthy be filthy still; and let him who is righteous do righteousness still; and let him whi is holy be holy still." (Rev. 22:11)
At a certain point the man is just remaining in a certain state STILL.
Outside of the New Jerusalem are left the things abominable to God -
"Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the fornicators and the murderers and the idolaters and everyone who loves and makes a lie. I Jesus have sent My angel to testify to you these things ..." (Rev. 22:15)
Outside are also the unbelieving. Yet there may be indication that some knew the truth yet were simply cowards to be saved -
"He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be God to him, and he will be a son to Me.
But the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and fornicators and sorcerers and idolaters and all the false, their part will be in the lake which burns with fire and brimestone, which is the second death." (Rev. 21:7,8)
" ... the cowardly and unbelieving"
The mentioning of "cowardly" FIRST and then the "unbelieving" may indicate that some sinners knew the truth of God but were simply cowardly before other men to receive Christ as Lord and Savior.
For the sake of "saving face" before other men, they lost their souls, lost their salvation.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
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Replies to this message:
 Message 678 by jar, posted 12-27-2012 7:57 PM jaywill has not replied
 Message 686 by kofh2u, posted 12-28-2012 12:08 PM jaywill has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 678 of 722 (685887)
12-27-2012 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 677 by jaywill
12-27-2012 7:14 PM


more quote mining and off topic marketing
And so once again you resort to quote mining, misrepresenting what the Bible actually says and marketing an evil and petty god.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 677 by jaywill, posted 12-27-2012 7:14 PM jaywill has not replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 679 of 722 (685939)
12-28-2012 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 668 by jaywill
12-27-2012 12:49 PM


God says He's good to women, but what about His actions?
jaywill writes:
The topic here is "Is God Good?"
Well, to argee in the affirmative, especially as regards WOMEN, I would like to submit biblical facts.
...
All these passages and more show God is good in placing male and female in equal status in many basic things.
I agree with you that the Bible states these things, and that they can be used to show that God thinks of males and females as equals.
But saying things is one thing, while doing something about them is quite another.
I don't think you can argue against the fact that the past is full of women not exactly having the same rights as men.
There are still plenty of innocent women in the world today who are not treated as equals.
We have names for people who say virtuous things, but then do not back those virtues up when it comes to their actions. None of those names would include calling them "good."
Again, we have a problem of evil that God can fix, and according to you God says that he supports fixing it... but He just doesn't.
Either He isn't capable, or He doesn't care to.
Therefore, He either isn't God, or He isn't good.
  • Maybe God wants us to correct the problem of evil ourselves?
    -that would allow those who succeed to feel awfully smug about themselves. Of course, it also includes the needless suffering of all those who live and die before those who succeed. Don't you think that any human who actually does solve "the problem of evil" would give up the "glory" of having done so in order to prevent the suffering of all those who came before them?
    It's a farce. A rationalization that doesn't stand up to scrutiny. There's nothing good about "testing" humans to see if they can overcome the problem of evil on their own. If God can prevent evil, but doesn't because he's playing a game with humanity, then God is not good.
  • Maybe God has a plan to correct the problem of evil at some future point?
    -then there is some sort of temporal restriction on God's power... in which case, He is not powerful enough to stop the problem of evil now.
  • Maybe God has a plan to correct the problem of evil in the afterlife?
    -then there is something in this life that restricts God's power... in which case, He is not powerful enough to stop the problem of evil here.
  • Maybe God has a plan to continue the problem of evil here and now and we just don't understand why it is in fact a good thing?
    -this is exactly what this thread is for.
    Where is the information that justifies leaving the problem of evil alive and well, here and now?
    I fully agree that if this information ever becomes available, then we might be able to see that the problem of evil actually is a good thing.
    But, really, this is just saying "If it can be shown that God is good... then God is good." Of course that's true. Why wouldn't it be? The important part is if it can be shown that God is good, of course... which hasn't been done yet. And, if we look at the facts we have, God has so far been shown to not be good (or not be powerful enough to act as He wishes to promote that goodness).
    These are the facts:
    There is a problem of evil.
    God exists.
    God is all powerful.
    God is benevolent.
    ...but it just doesn't add up.
    A problem of evil cannot exist with a God that is all powerful and benevolent.
    An all powerful, benevolent God would simply restrict the free will of someone attempting to commit evil, instead of restricting the free will of the victim of evil.
    Therefore, from the information we have available to us:
    God is not all powerful.
    Or God is not benevolent (not good).
    Edited by Stile, : "She'll be comin' 'round the mountain when she comes..." -I hate that song

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 668 by jaywill, posted 12-27-2012 12:49 PM jaywill has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 680 by jaywill, posted 12-28-2012 10:25 AM Stile has replied

      
    jaywill
    Member (Idle past 1941 days)
    Posts: 4519
    From: VA USA
    Joined: 12-05-2005


    Message 680 of 722 (685955)
    12-28-2012 10:25 AM
    Reply to: Message 679 by Stile
    12-28-2012 9:11 AM


    Re: God says He's good to women, but what about His actions?
    I agree with you that the Bible states these things, and that they can be used to show that God thinks of males and females as equals.
    These are some passages which set men and women on equal status. I would not attempt to portray other indications reveal some differences in function or responsibility.
    The Bible is a hard book to 100% systematize. It is varied and multifaceted.
    I am happy if you can just appreciate my desire to encompass a more fully rounded balance - all things considered.
    But saying things is one thing, while doing something about them is quite another.
    Do you mean God's doing or man's doing or what ?
    I don't think you can argue against the fact that the past is full of women not exactly having the same rights as men.
    No, I cannot argue against an ancient patriarchical society in the ANE.
    There are still plenty of innocent women in the world today who are not treated as equals.
    True.
    We have names for people who say virtuous things, but then do not back those virtues up when it comes to their actions. None of those names would include calling them "good."
    Again, we have a problem of evil that God can fix, and according to you God says that he supports fixing it... but He just doesn't.
    I don't agree with this as fully as you would wish.
    I have known hundreds of women liberated by Christ.
    When it comes to the frustration which cries out "God WHY don't you fix our world?" I recall that Jesus said to seek first His kingdom and His righteousness and all things would be added to us.
    I know we want to say "God come and fix our world for us."
    But our "fixing" idea is not radical enough. That means our idea of "fixing" our world does not go to the root of the world's problem. To be radical means to go to the root.
    If you are a bit objective about it, I think you can see much women advocacy has been brought about by humanitarian efforts with a Judeo / Christian ethic at their core.
    That new world is coming. But what about Christ's charge that I seek FIRST His kingdom and His righteousness ? Jesus needs some to seek first His kingdom and His righteousness.
    Christ healed multitudes. Christ fed multitudes. Christ cast out the demons from many. After His resurrection where were they ? Only 120 were there left praying together awaiting the Holy Spirit. Where were all the other thousands who got "helped" who got "fixed"?
    Your complaint is heart felt. But it is something like wanting God to supply more bandaids upon the wound. Whereas He needs a group of overcoming victors of faith to turn the age, bring in His second coming, and usher in the millennial kingdom.
    He needs some to seek first His kingdom. That is to seek a realm in which He has the authority to administor and to be Lord. This is different from just yelling at God to come and "fix" stuff for us so we can go on with our Christless, Lordless world.
    Often when a person cries out " God why don't you come and FIX the world?" He would say - " I want to start today with YOU" then we have second thoughts.
    "No God. I meant the OTHER guy over THERE."
    The Gospel of the kingdom is about one at a time, God brings you and I under His administration as our Lord.
    Either He isn't capable, or He doesn't care to.
    Therefore, He either isn't God, or He isn't good.
    Those are not the only alternatives. And I am soon likely to start a new thread. Perhaps it will be dedicated to Divine / Human cooperation and coordination.
    God has a will.
    God needs a man on earth to reflect that corresponding will.
    Many things He will not unilaterally do without man on the earth to echo and request His desire.
    "IF you abide in Me and My words abide in you, ask whatever you will, and it shall be done for you." (John 15:7)
    Christ taught us disciples that our request can move His throne to action. He will grant us what we petition. He will grant us what we pray and ask Him for. But it is conditioned upon our ABIDING in Him and His words ABIDING in us.
    God needs man to agree with Him and ask.
    God needs man to echo His own desire and petition.
    God even tells ancient Israel not only to ASK but to even COMMAND Him -
    [color=orange] "Thus says Jehovah, the Holy One of Israel and the One who formed him, Ask Me about the things to come concerning My sons, And concerning the work of My hands command Me." (Isaiah 45:11)
    Did you see that? God not only request that His people ask. God requests that His people would COMMAND Him. The church needs to learn the commanding prayer.
    He has a will which is all good. He often waits for men and women on earth to correspond to His will, yearning for His administration, seeking His kingship. Then they're prayers ECHO His heart's desire and He moves.
    This is a big subject which requires a lot of teaching. But look at Jesus Christ. Here you have a Man 100% one with the will of His Father. You have a perfect Divine / Human coordination and a 100% cooperation of God and man.
    Your cry of frustration is "Oh God! Come and fix my world!
    And God's call is that He needs us to abide in Him as Christ abode in the Father.
    Maybe God wants us to correct the problem of evil ourselves?
    "Your will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. Your kingdom come."
    This is part of the way Christ taught His disciples to pray. God's will to be done on the earth, is the real need. God's kingdom with God's administration, with God's throne to head up all things on the earth, this is the need for the fulfilling of His plan.
    How would you react to Christ wanting to establish His Lordship firstly in your own spirit and heart ? I think you should start your petitioning of God there.
    "What about MY heart Lord?
    What about your kingdom bringing ME in under your administration?"
    He has to rescue each one of us out from the authority of darkness and of Satan into the kingdom of Christ, the Son of His love.
    "Giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you for a share of the alloted portion of the saints in the light; Who delivered us out of the authority of darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, In whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins." (See Col. 1:12a,13-14)
    The coming in of His kingdom involves transfering us each out of one kingdom into another. It involves first the forgiveness of our own sins. It involves our being qualified to enjoy a share of the alloted riches of who Christ is. That is to enjoy by partaking of the portion of this Person dispensed into our own beings.
    Then there are these communities called local churches which are the practical kingdom living on the earth. They function as lampstands to shine in the world where men can see the testimony of God reigning in people's lives.
    He is working from the inside out. He is working to dispense Christ into a group of people. And if He gains a group of people saturated and permeated with Christ He will gain a beachhead from which He can return to take the whole earth.
    I am seeking to be part of the beachhead. From the beachhead of some people Christ can gain He will have a "Normandy" or a "D-day Beach" upon which He can launch His second coming and come as "the Desire of all the nations".
    -that would allow those who succeed to fell awfully smug about themselves. Of course, it also includes the needless suffering of all those who live and die before those who succeed. Don't you think that any human who actually does solve "the problem of evil" would give up the "glory" of having done so in order to prevent the suffering of all those who came before them?
    You like me, can hasten the coming of Christ to this planet again physically, by turning over our selves to His process of filling us with Himself.
    If a group of people will abide in Him and He in them, He will permeate and fill them with His Spirit. As they faithfully live through Him and allow Him to live through them, they will also command Him concerning His will because they are one with Him.
    I cannot fix the evil in all the world. I am not called as an individual to do that. But I can live Christ and allow Christ in me to touch the lives of this or that needy one.
    And I can be built into this holy collective - this Body of Christ - saturated with Christ - who will be the desire of His heart to come for her as He would come for a Bride. We can woo Him to us.
    We cannot woo Him as a teenage girl. But we can woo Him as a mature woman ready to marry Him. Then He will be compelled because of His love for His Bride.
    And a byproduct of this will be the establishment of His kingdom of the millennium 1,000 years on earth. He longs for this. If we abide in Him He will grant us whatever we will. For what we will will be what is the will of God.
    That is all the time I have this morning.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 679 by Stile, posted 12-28-2012 9:11 AM Stile has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 682 by Stile, posted 12-28-2012 10:50 AM jaywill has replied

      
    New Cat's Eye
    Inactive Member


    Message 681 of 722 (685961)
    12-28-2012 10:35 AM
    Reply to: Message 675 by jaywill
    12-27-2012 4:49 PM


    Re: No healing Just Grace
    Are you sure it isn't you whose feelings are hurt ?
    Maybe your ego's feelings are hurt at the thought that a sinner could really lose in the end, and not totally get away with it all.
    Man is offended at the very thought of eternal punishment.
    Speak for yourself. My ego and feelings are not hurt. And my question remains:
    quote:
    What kind of existence do you think can be had in a state where God's forgiveness is rejected, His presence is disdained, His care is not wanted, His blessings are not needed, His holiness is insulted, His authority rejected, His glory profaned ?
    Torment is an apt word to discribe the existence of the sinner who wants nothing but himself and his unforgiven transgressions against God and man.
    Why?
    Why is eternal torment the right punishment for dissing God?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 675 by jaywill, posted 12-27-2012 4:49 PM jaywill has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 697 by jaywill, posted 01-01-2013 3:00 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

      
    Stile
    Member
    Posts: 4295
    From: Ontario, Canada
    Joined: 12-02-2004


    (1)
    Message 682 of 722 (685964)
    12-28-2012 10:50 AM
    Reply to: Message 680 by jaywill
    12-28-2012 10:25 AM


    Is God Powerful or Good?
    jaywill writes:
    That new world is coming. But what about Christ's charge that I seek FIRST His kingdom and His righteousness? Jesus needs some to seek first His kingdom and His righteousness.
    I don't have a problem with this at all.
    I've been saying all along that God is either not good, or not all-powerful.
    I fully agree that God could exist as very good, but just not all-powerful.
    God can really want to help us be good, but He's just not powerful enough to do that. His power is limited to us FIRST seeking His kingdom and His righteousness.
    Is that what you're saying? God isn't capable of dealing with the problem of evil right now?
    If so, then I agree.
    However, if God actually is capapble of dealing with the problem of evil right now... but He isn't, and He is imposing this charge onto us just because He wants to do that before He helps out... then this reduces God to playing a game with us. Which, again, would make God not good at all.
    Often when a person cries out " God why don't you come and FIX the world?" He would say - " I want to start today with YOU" then we have second thoughts.
    "No God. I meant the OTHER guy over THERE."
    The Gospel of the kingdom is about one at a time, God brings you and I under His administration as our Lord.
    I have no problems with this at all.
    God is fully allowed to restrict my free will where it would hurt other people. It would prevent me from making all the mistakes I'm still prone to.
    Your cry of frustration is "Oh God! Come and fix my world!
    And God's call is that He needs us to abide in Him as Christ abode in the Father.
    Sounds fair.
    If it's because God is not powerful enough to fix the world before we abide in Him as Christ abode in the Father, then it's acceptable and God may still be good.
    But if you want to say that God could fix it now, and He's making a choice to restrain Himself until we abide in Him as Christ abode in the Father... then God is playing a game with us. This is not good at all.
    Do you know which one it is?
    I can understand if you do not know. Or do you claim to know?
    That is all the time I have this morning.
    No problem. I think you're doing really well.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 680 by jaywill, posted 12-28-2012 10:25 AM jaywill has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 696 by jaywill, posted 12-29-2012 10:35 AM Stile has replied

      
    Larni
    Member (Idle past 164 days)
    Posts: 4000
    From: Liverpool
    Joined: 09-16-2005


    (1)
    Message 683 of 722 (685971)
    12-28-2012 11:11 AM
    Reply to: Message 662 by kofh2u
    12-26-2012 8:12 PM


    Re: Charity is the lov of neighbor
    The Bible is a book about the psychology of the individual which predictably explains the Sociology we record as histroy long after the sad consequences have taken there toll.
    How strange? All my years at various universities studying psychology and never once did I see the bible on the reading lists.
    I suppose you can guess why this is.
    Has any one agreed with you on this site?

    The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
    -Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
    The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
    -Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
    Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
    -Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 662 by kofh2u, posted 12-26-2012 8:12 PM kofh2u has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 685 by kofh2u, posted 12-28-2012 11:57 AM Larni has replied

      
    ringo
    Member (Idle past 412 days)
    Posts: 20940
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005


    Message 684 of 722 (685973)
    12-28-2012 11:30 AM
    Reply to: Message 672 by jaywill
    12-27-2012 3:06 PM


    Re: No healing Just Grace
    jaywill writes:
    What kind of existence do you think can be had in a state where God's forgiveness is rejected, His presence is disdained, His care is not wanted, His blessings are not needed, His holiness is insulted, His authority rejected, His glory profaned ?
    A pretty good one.
    jaywill writes:
    Some believe that if God is good then He should not hate sin.
    The only ones hurt by sin are us. When people are already hurt, it is not "good" to hurt them more.
    jaywill writes:
    In essence God says - "I will be good. But I will not be good at the expense of my being righteous. I will be good in a way which upholds my eternal righteous character."
    That's exactly what I've been saying. God is not good - because he'd rather be righteous.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 672 by jaywill, posted 12-27-2012 3:06 PM jaywill has not replied

      
    kofh2u
    Member (Idle past 3820 days)
    Posts: 1162
    From: phila., PA
    Joined: 04-05-2004


    Message 685 of 722 (685976)
    12-28-2012 11:57 AM
    Reply to: Message 683 by Larni
    12-28-2012 11:11 AM


    Re: Charity is the lov of neighbor
    KOFH2u
    The Bible is a book about the psychology of the individual which predictably explains the Sociology we record as histroy long after the sad consequences have taken there toll.
    Larni
    1) How strange? All my years at various universities studying psychology and never once did I see the bible on the reading lists.
    I suppose you can guess why this is.
    2) Has any one agreed with you on this site?
    1) I think most people would have to agree that the Bible is concerned with the subject of Human Behavior.
    The Bible is even authoriative about specifying the recommended behaviors.
    The Science of Human Behavior is considered the oldest of the Sciences.
    And, as the editors of the Enclycopedia of Human Behavior explicitly state in the Preface, it is also the Science which has made the least progress.
    Psychology fails to have established much more on the subject than a varuety of ideas and hypothesis about Human Behavior, most all of which have fallen out of favor with the demise of their originator.
    I believe billions of people agree with the observations made in the Bible which correspond one-to-one with those made since Freud and Carl Jung.
    But the two camps (religion and psychology) have so far failed to cooperate in noticing their identical observations over the centuries:
    1) Id = Lucifer
    2) Libido = Satan
    3) Ego = Mammon
    4) Anima = Devil
    5) Self = Beelzebub
    6) Superego = False Prophet
    7) Harmony = False shepherd
    8) Conscience = Good Shepherd

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 683 by Larni, posted 12-28-2012 11:11 AM Larni has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 687 by Larni, posted 12-28-2012 3:25 PM kofh2u has replied
     Message 692 by Eli, posted 12-29-2012 1:41 AM kofh2u has not replied

      
    kofh2u
    Member (Idle past 3820 days)
    Posts: 1162
    From: phila., PA
    Joined: 04-05-2004


    Message 686 of 722 (685978)
    12-28-2012 12:08 PM
    Reply to: Message 677 by jaywill
    12-27-2012 7:14 PM


    Biblese is for church people....
    The eternal fire was prepared not for man but for the devil and his angels.
    You are doing well in holding to the text which has lead you this far, but these people need to relate to the secular world they live in before the source of your kniwledge, the Bible, has any importance for them.
    Once they see the devil as the Great Harlot whose Feminists' 1960 Sexual Revolution turned a God fearing America into a weak, aborting Welfare-funded Matriarchy, one using the shock troops of Gayness to advance a socially dstructive sexual promiscuity that is bankrupting the Nation, then the Bible prophecies can be explained:
    .
    Rev. 17:3 So he carried me away (in the spirit of thought), into the wilderness (of my imagination) and I saw (as if) a woman, ...
    .... (those who have Institutionalized a system of sexual seduction into a failed matrimony), sit upon a scarlet coloured beast (of a brazen and corrupt sexually misdirected economic system: [Dan 3:1-5]), full of names of (Pagan) blasphemy, having seven heads:
    (which existed in (1) Egypt, (2) Assyria, (3) Babylon, (4) Persia/Mede, (5) Greece, (6) Rome (7) the whole of Western Culture to follow)...
    ... having ten horns upon these seven heads:
    (1. Undivided Empire; capital Rome: [305 AD],
    2. Western Roman Empire: (Romulus Augustus): [to 476 AD],
    3. Eastern Roman: Byzantine Empire, [1453 AD]
    4. Charlemagne, [800 - 1000 AD]
    5. Holy Roman Empire, [1200 AD-1492 AD]
    6. Italy, [Renaissance, 16th century]
    7. Spain, [17th century]
    8. France, [18th-19th Century]
    9. Britain, [19th-20th century]
    10. Nazi Germany, [20th century])
    11. America next?
    Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 677 by jaywill, posted 12-27-2012 7:14 PM jaywill has not replied

      
    Larni
    Member (Idle past 164 days)
    Posts: 4000
    From: Liverpool
    Joined: 09-16-2005


    (1)
    Message 687 of 722 (686039)
    12-28-2012 3:25 PM
    Reply to: Message 685 by kofh2u
    12-28-2012 11:57 AM


    Re: Charity is the lov of neighbor
    Get with the times, Grandad!
    Freud and Jung have been out of favour for years. Experimental psychology uses the scientific method: do you know what that means?
    If you have read the Enclycopedia of Human Behaviour further than the preface you would know the rigourous scientific procedures used in psychology.
    To liken Freud and Jung (both a pair of wishful thinking idiots) to a grab bag of biblical names serves what purpose, exactly?
    Once again you show your total ignorance of the real world.
    Edited by Larni, : No reason given.
    Edited by Larni, : No reason given.

    The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
    -Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
    The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
    -Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
    Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
    -Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 685 by kofh2u, posted 12-28-2012 11:57 AM kofh2u has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 688 by kofh2u, posted 12-28-2012 5:14 PM Larni has replied

      
    kofh2u
    Member (Idle past 3820 days)
    Posts: 1162
    From: phila., PA
    Joined: 04-05-2004


    Message 688 of 722 (686060)
    12-28-2012 5:14 PM
    Reply to: Message 687 by Larni
    12-28-2012 3:25 PM


    Re: Charity is the lov of neighbor
    You should really think of this subject of Experimental Psychology as a methodology rather than a singular area within psychology.
    Ther Scientific Method has always been aplied to psychology.
    The History of Experimental Psychology
    1874 - Wilhelm Wundt published the first experimental psychology textbook, Grundzge der physiologischen Psychologie (Principles of Physiological Psychology).
    1875 - William James opened a psychology lab in the United States. The lab was created for the purpose of class demonstrations, rather than to perform original experimental research.
    1879 - The first experimental psychology lab was founded in Leipzig, Germany. Modern experimental psychology dates back to the establishment of the very first psychology laboratory by pioneering psychologist Wilhelm Wundt during the late nineteenth century.
    1883 - G. Stanley Hall opened the first experimental psychology lab in the United States at John Hopkins University.
    1885 - Herman Ebbinghaus published his famous ber das Gedchtnis ("On Memory"), which was later translated to English as Memory. A Contribution to Experimental Psychology. In the work, he described his learning and memory experiments that he conducted on himself.
    1887 - George Truball Ladd published his textbook Elements of Physiological Psychology, the first American book to include a significant amount of information on experimental psychology.
    The fields which we are interested in regard to Sociology and Personality presently utilize these Jungian entities to develop theories about Learning Style, Personality, Education,Intelligence, etc.
    It probably cpomes as news to you that ths field of Psychology is very diverse and sub-divided. One placd you might research would be the use of Personality Tests by sites like eHarmony which uses the Myers/Briggs Type Test, (MBTT).
    There you might discover much which is apparent in your own personality, (ENFJ?) that would be informative and useful to a person with strong opinions and an aggressive ego.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 687 by Larni, posted 12-28-2012 3:25 PM Larni has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 689 by Larni, posted 12-28-2012 8:32 PM kofh2u has replied

      
    Larni
    Member (Idle past 164 days)
    Posts: 4000
    From: Liverpool
    Joined: 09-16-2005


    Message 689 of 722 (686092)
    12-28-2012 8:32 PM
    Reply to: Message 688 by kofh2u
    12-28-2012 5:14 PM


    Re: Charity is the lov of neighbor
    If you think anyone uses Jungian mysticism in psychology today, especially with regard to learning (cognitive psychology) and conditioning (behavioural psychology) you are very wrong, young lady.
    Freud and Jung pulled their theories out of their respective arses: much like you seem to be doing.
    One time a young lad had a phobia about horses: you know what your hero Fraud (sic) said?
    That's right: "the boy fears emasculation by the father".
    Genius.
    Where do you get your ideas from? Do you know that you come across as a complete twat?
    All the best.
    Edited by Larni, : Toning it down

    The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
    -Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
    The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
    -Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
    Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
    -Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 688 by kofh2u, posted 12-28-2012 5:14 PM kofh2u has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 690 by kofh2u, posted 12-28-2012 9:03 PM Larni has replied

      
    kofh2u
    Member (Idle past 3820 days)
    Posts: 1162
    From: phila., PA
    Joined: 04-05-2004


    Message 690 of 722 (686096)
    12-28-2012 9:03 PM
    Reply to: Message 689 by Larni
    12-28-2012 8:32 PM


    Re: Charity is the lov of neighbor
    If you think anyone uses Jungian mysticism in psychology today, especially with regard to learning (cognitive psychology) and conditioning (behavioural psychology) you are very wrong, young lady.
    It is FYI that the Myers/Briggs Type Test identifies the eight archetypes to which I drew your attention above, encoding them so as represent each of the personalities by the order of four of these.
    If you tested as an ENFJ, for instance, the E =Ego, while the N= the intuition emanating from the Anima, and F = the Feelings associated with the Self.
    The psychology assume a hierarchy of dominance in these archetypes which affects our perception of Reality and tends to skew the way we think in a certain way.
    It makes sense that thousands of years ago until the present, each generation observed these subconscious entities "slipping" their influences into our behavior.
    When they were so dominant and uniquely primary in their influence over our behavior, each society of the past saw them as spirits.
    They supposed the spirits came into us from the outside, because they could not relate to an unconscious mind at work.
    Of course, a century ago, Freud taught audiences to accept the universality of these influences inside us all.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 689 by Larni, posted 12-28-2012 8:32 PM Larni has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 691 by Larni, posted 12-28-2012 9:50 PM kofh2u has not replied
     Message 693 by Eli, posted 12-29-2012 1:47 AM kofh2u has not replied

      
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