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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Creationist Shortage

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Author Topic:   Creationist Shortage
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 966 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


Message 232 of 415 (668209)
07-18-2012 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dr Adequate
05-04-2012 3:13 PM


This has probably already been mentioned, but it seems that creationists have retreated to their own forums where they can control the content and limit the opposition's contribution. That way they can suggest any nonsense they wish and then sit around and pat each other on the back for their superior intellect and the imminent destruction of atheistic evolution.
Every once in a while, one will feel especially confident and spread his (or her) wings and set out into the world, then they end up here ... but only for a short time.
There wasn't much going on here, so I have spent some time over at evolution fairytale. What a joke! Not one good thing I can say so far. I expect to get banned soon.
HBD

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for. But until the end of the present exile has come and terminated this our imperfection by which "we know in part," I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-04-2012 3:13 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 233 by ooh-child, posted 07-18-2012 11:57 AM herebedragons has replied
 Message 246 by Minnemooseus, posted 07-19-2012 1:29 AM herebedragons has not replied

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 966 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


(1)
Message 234 of 415 (668215)
07-18-2012 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by ooh-child
07-18-2012 11:57 AM


I would say that yes there is a considerable overlap in the two groups. But, I would not be willing to say there is a connection between being a creationist and being a conservative. In seems that what both groups do have in common (especially where they overlap) is that they are unwilling to let go of the past and realize that we are now in a new era. There are new social forces and new social needs. We have also greatly advanced in what we know about the world and how it works. These folks want to cling to the "good old days" when all was right with the world. But in my opinion, the "good old days" really weren't all that good.
HBD

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for. But until the end of the present exile has come and terminated this our imperfection by which "we know in part," I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by ooh-child, posted 07-18-2012 11:57 AM ooh-child has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-18-2012 1:04 PM herebedragons has replied
 Message 236 by ringo, posted 07-18-2012 1:41 PM herebedragons has not replied

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 966 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


Message 237 of 415 (668223)
07-18-2012 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 235 by New Cat's Eye
07-18-2012 1:04 PM


Well, have you ever seen a liberal creationist?
I think you should say it the other way: there isn't a connection between being a conservative and being a creationist.
Good point! Consider my original post amended!
I think its a good idea to keep a good grip on the reins and keep an eye on where you're going. I don't mind progressing socially, but I don't like the rashness that I tend to see in the left. I think its good to have a conservative side to keep things in check. The progress is unavoidable, but the speed can be tampered.
So would you say that's moderate?
Part of the difficulty I have is that I am unsure of what "conservative" and "liberal" really mean anymore. I used to think that liberal meant big government and conservative meant less government. It seems that now they both mean big government just serving different interests. I tend to favor less government involvement, in particular less government bureaucracy.
They always seem to forget that them good ol' days are what lead to these days here.
Yea, and then blame the previous administration for the problems and promise the new administration will deliver. Then repeat cycle, new players.

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for. But until the end of the present exile has come and terminated this our imperfection by which "we know in part," I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca

This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-18-2012 1:04 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 966 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


Message 257 of 415 (668289)
07-19-2012 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 252 by Percy
07-19-2012 9:51 AM


Creationist shortage
But I don't believe the creationist shortage here has anything to do with anything EvC Forum is doing
I think moderation on this forum is rather well balanced. It allows people of all different views to express their perspective without censoring. I also appreciate that when moderators enter into a discussion that remove their moderator "hats". On other forums they are like "gods" who can't be disputed with or challenged.
The only complaint I would have is that there are too many personal attacks and rude, hateful comments (from both sides to be fair). Some creationists may feel intimidated by the amount of "abuse" they have to take on this site, as some people are unwilling to pull any punches and want to make sure that the creationist realizes just how ignorant they are. Sometimes I wish that was reigned in a bit. But I would rather deal with that than censorship just because you don't agree with someone's opinion.
Social websites.
Move to mobile platforms.
Creationism no longer actively seeking confrontation with science.
Not sure about how the first two affect the situation, but the third surely is a huge factor. There seems to be an attitude that creationists can develop a new type of science that does not rely on preconceived assumptions. They feel they need to distance themselves from the "faith-based" science of evolution and pursue science the "proper way." That leaves participation on forums like this useless to them.
HBD

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for. But until the end of the present exile has come and terminated this our imperfection by which "we know in part," I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by Percy, posted 07-19-2012 9:51 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 966 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


(5)
Message 408 of 415 (669811)
08-03-2012 8:13 AM


Summary
I see that there are three main reasons for the shortage of creationists on this forum
1. The issues involved in this discussion are very complicated and it takes a layperson hours and hours of research to understand the details of a particular issue. Scientists have amassed an incredible amount of knowledge about the natural world and it is not just things you can learn by a cursory reading of a magazine article. Creationists seem to take their knowledge from a single (or a minimal number) source, typically from a creationist website, and try to defend their belief based on that. So many of the creationist arguments come from a complete misunderstanding of the actual situation. When the details of the issue are brought to light it can be overwhelming. A layperson who does not have the scientific background and training can feel completely confused and not know how to sort out fact from fiction. They then decide that they just can not figure it out for sure so they better stick with their faith.
2. This forum has become rather hostile towards creationists. I really liked dewise's analogy of plants grown in a hothouse and then being moved into the real world. Some of this hostile environment is unavoidable; when a creationist's beliefs are challenged with the actual evidence - that is hostile. Some of the hostility comes from the evo side needing to refute the same argument over and over and over. So often it seems the creationist will simply repeat the same misunderstanding without ever responding to any responses. It is understandable to become frustrated in those situations. Some comes as a response to the arrogant creationist who comes here thinking that his trite, silly argument is going to bring down the entire ToE. Usually this part of the hostile environment is unavoidable of understandable.
However, another source of hostility is one that I think should be addressed. Some on this site (although a small minority they seem to have a loud voice) appear to have the agenda of ridiculing and degrading any who believe in God or have religious convictions. I personally came to this forum as a creationist, but a skeptical one, because I liked the concept of "understanding through discussion". I would suggest that when we deal with creationists we keep that goal in mind. As I said, some of the hostility is unavoidable, but some of the hostility can be avoided by treating others with respect and applying a bit heavier moderation on those that don't.
3. Probably due to points 1 and 2, creationists have retreated to their own safe houses. In those safe communities, not only are their beliefs not challenged, but they don't need to be bothered with the nit-picky details of reality. When they make a point (that if brought up on a forum like this would be crushed into little tiny pieces) they can ignore the complete misunderstand that it is based on and pat each other on the back and declare what a good point it is. The whole idea that thousands and thousands of scientists working in the field every day have completely missed the truth but these armchair philosophers have it all figured out simply because they have the Bible (which, of course, explains all about the natural world) completely baffles me. It is so much easier to live in ignorance that understanding. Another favorite quote of mine from Francesco Petrarca is that "Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." This is the creationist "hothouse" mentality.
HBD

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for. But until the end of the present exile has come and terminated this our imperfection by which "we know in part," I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca

  
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