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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Creationist Shortage

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Author Topic:   Creationist Shortage
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 66 of 415 (661909)
05-10-2012 9:13 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by jar
05-10-2012 8:58 PM


Re: Where Have Creationists Gone?
Come on over to Are any of these prophecies fulfilled by Jesus? and let's see if you can support your assertions.
That's a pretty cruel invite, Mr. Jar. Buzsaw is banned from participating in that forum.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by jar, posted 05-10-2012 8:58 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by jar, posted 05-10-2012 9:19 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 86 of 415 (662068)
05-11-2012 11:31 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by foreveryoung
05-11-2012 10:55 PM


it would not only get me banned but would result in cops banging on my front door
I don't know how serious you are, but I did want to point out that one former poster here did manage to get himself arrested after repeatedly threatening people over the internet.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by foreveryoung, posted 05-11-2012 10:55 PM foreveryoung has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 99 of 415 (662110)
05-12-2012 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Percy
05-12-2012 9:46 AM


Re: Evolutionists Behaving Like Jerks
Figuring out how to stop yourself from turning every thread into a discussion about you is one of the prerequisites before a return to the science forums could be considered.
I understand why you insist on this path, but I think you are requiring an impossibly high standard that is essentially a permanent ban. To a very great extent, your requirement makes Buzsaw responsible for the reactions of the rest of the participants.
Independent of Buzsaw's understanding of evidence, the man has other issues (belief in his own infalliability, inability to consider, let alone understand opposing view points, tendency to consider every half baked source that agrees with him as accurate, complete refusal to do any self-examination, complete disrespect for any science he does not understand, etc.) that cause others to drag Buzsaw himself into every thread in which he posts.
And the problem is not unique to Buzsaw. Threads in which shadow71, Dawn Bertot, Chuck77, et alia appear in frequently turn into threads about them rather than the position they advocate, and with good reason. For the most part, all of them are incapable of properly engaging in a debate that includes scientific evidence, and their substitute tactics for participating produce way more heat than light.
I would recommend taking smaller steps with Buzsaw. Give him a more attainable hurdle o meet and allow him some limited participation in the science forum. Or encourage to participate in a scientific debate in the Great Debate forum while ignoring completely the inevitable peanut gallery comments.
Just one man's opinion.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Percy, posted 05-12-2012 9:46 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 107 of 415 (662147)
05-12-2012 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by shadow71
05-12-2012 1:34 PM


Re: CRISPRs redux
When I posted about James A. Shapiro's theory of Natural Genetic Engineering and gave my view of his theory I was told I did not unerstand his theory. Subsequently I discussed this with Shapiro and he told me I had a good understanding of his theory. I posted his reply to me on this board (with his permission) and I was again told by many on the board I had no idea what Shapiro was talking about.
Actually you are neglecting to mention that we asked you questions about Shapiro's paper and you admitted not understanding Shapiros work. In particular you had no clue that "purifying selection" was standard terminology referring to natural selection while trying to explain to us how Shapiros work did not involve natural selection despite his use of the term purifying selection.
You also went on at length about how a paper about random mutation being a "null hypothesis somehow disproved that mutations were random, when the actual paper gave evidence against directed mutations.
There is ample evidence in the Shapiro and Wright discussions that you don't understand biology papers in sufficient detail to understand criticisms of your positions.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by shadow71, posted 05-12-2012 1:34 PM shadow71 has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 128 of 415 (662223)
05-13-2012 6:13 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by Buzsaw
05-12-2012 5:14 PM


Re: YEC: Say What?
frako writes:
So fi for example a creationist posts a claim that the earth is 6000 years old and has no evidence but the bible to back it up let him post that then let him read detailed information of numerous dating techniques that prove him wrong and none that prove him right.
This is another example of why creationists are ill treated here. We all get painted with the same broad brush. A significant percentage of us are not YEC 6000-ers.
Frako's post was about a creationist who believes that the earth is 6000 years old. So it wasn't about you. At all. Does it really make sense to adopt the position that his comments included you so you can claim to be injured? There are still YECs who still post here.
I'm beginning to understand Percy's issues with your participation. I still think it would be best to let you post in the science forum, but I no longer see any reason to talk him out of his position.
What I find hilarious your complaint included your own shot at YEC beliefs.
zI've been here over 8 years and I still get lumped by you people in with the YECs who's paradigm makes no sense.
Sigh.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Buzsaw, posted 05-12-2012 5:14 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 132 of 415 (662267)
05-14-2012 8:14 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by Rahvin
05-13-2012 11:07 AM


Re: The Delusional Ones
Buz Sawyer writes:
There is nothing visibly observable in our environs that, through random and natural means progresses from chaos into order.
Rahvin writes:
And other crystal formation.
And every element or compound that goes from liquid to solid or vapor to liquid. And every infant organism that develops from an embryo. Photosynthesis. Food becoming body parts. Salt water evaporating and then raining down as pure water.
We've done this exercise before. Some people never learn.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : Add attributions to quotes to remove impression that Rahvin is at fault.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Rahvin, posted 05-13-2012 11:07 AM Rahvin has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 295 of 415 (669131)
07-27-2012 8:50 AM
Reply to: Message 294 by Buzsaw
07-27-2012 7:59 AM


Re: Eye Witness Evidence
Biogenesis, the alleged evolvement of the first organisms into plants
Say what?? Biogenesis is nothing of the sort. We witness the results of biogenesis every time we see a new born anything.
None of the above had eyewitnesses of anything pertaining to their alleged happening. All have been derived from theoretic math, relativity and string abstract concoctions,
Your response to Percy's point that eyewitness testimony is not essential is to point out a lack of eyewitnesses?
A closed mouth gathers no foot.
Edited by NoNukes, : Deleted response to nonsense

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by Buzsaw, posted 07-27-2012 7:59 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 299 of 415 (669148)
07-27-2012 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 290 by marc9000
07-26-2012 7:36 PM


Re: What's the purpose here?
I was only referring to actual Christianity, not all the various modified versions over the past few centuries that modify and disregard the 66 book Bible according to their personal whims.
The no true Scotsman argument rises again.
Apparently it is pretty easy to ignore the true basis of Christianity and to act like a Pharisee. Do you believe that the early Christian Church had a 66 book Bible? Or any Bible at all? Are you suggesting that your brand of Christianity is the real thing, while, for example, the Church at Ephesus, was a bunch of wannabee fakes?
Is your take on Genesis anything like the take of early formerly Jewish Christians? Is there anything that Jesus says that suggests revising that take on Genesis? If not, then how do you decide that your personal take is required to be a true Christian?
Seriously, a Christian is someone who accepts the need for a personal savior and adopts Christ as his savior and Lord and lives a life according to Christ's teachings to the fullest extent achievable. Period. What you describe as Christianity is, instead worship of the Bible in the form canonized by human beings.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 290 by marc9000, posted 07-26-2012 7:36 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 330 of 415 (669497)
07-30-2012 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 323 by RAZD
07-30-2012 6:24 AM


Re: levels and levels and levels
Of course that is one of the reasons he has not encountered moderation, he basically accepts the evidence of evolution, with a modified deistic\IDist beginning (closer to your portrayal of my position).
I don't think accepting evidence for evolution is the key. I think Genomicus avoids moderator intervention because he makes efforts to present evidence based arguments for his own propositions.
If your position is essentially that the scientific method is crap and that you aren't bound to use evidence, then you are going to have difficulty presenting your case according to the rules governing the science forum. Unfortunately the rules, when evenly applied, do stack the deck against proponents of Creation Science. Further, attempts to avoid empirical evidence invite dogpiling and mocking because the departure is pretty easy to spot.
There are threads in which arguing about whether the scientific method is appropriate, but that argument cannot be the center of every single thread. Science threads about a specific science topic are about the evidence and the conclusions to be drawn from the evidence. If you really have an issue with that limitation, it ought to be discussed in a thread of its own.
At any rate, I really don't think Bolder-dash is interested in science based discussion. His primary goal these days is to complain about the forum rules. I don't think he is banned from the science forums, he simply doesn't have any purpose there other than complaining that a topic is being discussed at all.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 323 by RAZD, posted 07-30-2012 6:24 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 333 by RAZD, posted 07-30-2012 5:51 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied
 Message 337 by Bolder-dash, posted 07-30-2012 7:18 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 352 of 415 (669574)
07-31-2012 8:17 AM
Reply to: Message 349 by Minnemooseus
07-31-2012 3:47 AM


Re: Still, there is the problem of dogpiles and jerk evolutionists
My impression and recollection (being one of poor memory) is that Foreveryoung is a higher than average rationality creationist. He did some good discussions and I really do like the guy. Unfortunately, the combination of dogpiling and/or evo-jerks twice caused him to crack in an extreme manner. He needed a substantial suspension vacation for his own good.
I think this characterization is wrong. Foreveryoung started good threads, but he did not follow up on them. His first blow up started when people refused to buy into his radical theory without some evidence.
In fact, very few people participate in the physics discussions where Fy posted a good number of his threads. In a number of the threads he either stopped participating or when into loud profane rant mode in fairly short order.
The evolution side recognizes that the creation "science" side is armed with an empty gun. Still, the evo side demand is that they fire something other than blanks. Isn't that a variety of cogitative dissonance in itself?
That does seem a bit silly, but aren't those the rules of the game here? In your opinion, what should the response to a creation science argument be in the science forums?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 349 by Minnemooseus, posted 07-31-2012 3:47 AM Minnemooseus has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 353 of 415 (669579)
07-31-2012 8:47 AM
Reply to: Message 337 by Bolder-dash
07-30-2012 7:18 PM


Show me...
f one questions if that is really true, you are accused of being off topic, and thus its impossible to refute wild claims made by the evolutionists.
Except that the examples you've given really do seem to be off topic posts. We have had discussions about what constitutes the modern synthesis, so I doubt that you'd have had any problems generating discussion about that. But that point was pretty much irrelevant in the thread you raised it in.
You can say evidence abounds for your theory, but if asked to provide that evidence you can run under the skirts of the admins protection. That is standard practice here.
The Wright paper discussion was strictly about the evidence supporting the conclusion that mutations were random with respect to fitness. Yet your approach was to post questions out in left field. That is to thwart the discussion in the thread by directing it towards your own agenda.
The evolutionist is free to just say anything they want and pretend that its true.
Completely bogus. If you challenge someone on doing that, and they don't pony up the evidence, that's a win. Those challenges work quite well on the typical creationist arguments I see on this board.
But this would be a great thread for you to give a counter example. Perhaps I'm wrong.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 337 by Bolder-dash, posted 07-30-2012 7:18 PM Bolder-dash has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 360 of 415 (669615)
07-31-2012 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 356 by Bolder-dash
07-31-2012 9:38 AM


Re: Still, there is the problem of dogpiles and jerk evolutionists
How many evolutionists on this site are suspended or restricted from posting in certain forums for supposedly being off-topic? I am pretty sure there are none.
Nobody gets suspended for being off topic. Although it is probably possible to get suspended for deliberately refusing admin direction for such, I don't know anyone who gets suspended this way.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 356 by Bolder-dash, posted 07-31-2012 9:38 AM Bolder-dash has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 361 by Percy, posted 07-31-2012 3:52 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 363 of 415 (669631)
07-31-2012 8:02 PM
Reply to: Message 361 by Percy
07-31-2012 3:52 PM


Re: Still, there is the problem of dogpiles and jerk evolutionists
Persistence at being off-topic is usually rewarded with loss of posting permissions, usually only for that forum.
Exactly. Persistence, not simply posting an off topic message, but continuing to break the rules despite warnings.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 361 by Percy, posted 07-31-2012 3:52 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 364 by Minnemooseus, posted 07-31-2012 11:28 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 365 of 415 (669647)
07-31-2012 11:43 PM
Reply to: Message 364 by Minnemooseus
07-31-2012 11:28 PM


Re: The creationist goes off-topic and the evos gladly follow
So, should the evolutionists that follow going off-topic also be treated equally?
Other than objecting to the goofy title "evolutionist" sure. But again, nobody gets punished for simply being off topic.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 364 by Minnemooseus, posted 07-31-2012 11:28 PM Minnemooseus has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 366 by Bolder-dash, posted 08-01-2012 12:35 AM NoNukes has replied
 Message 367 by foreveryoung, posted 08-01-2012 12:43 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 374 of 415 (669663)
08-01-2012 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 366 by Bolder-dash
08-01-2012 12:35 AM


Re: nobody gets banned for being off topic, wink.
You are right nonukes, nobody REALLY gets suspended for being off-topic, what they really get suspended for is for complicating admin's stated purpose of convincing fence sitters. But of course he needs a good looking reason to suspend someone other than that, so its called "being off topic."
I don't expect you to accept the blame for anything you do. If admin were looking for an excuse to ban you, it wouldn't be terribly difficult to find one.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 366 by Bolder-dash, posted 08-01-2012 12:35 AM Bolder-dash has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 375 by Bolder-dash, posted 08-01-2012 11:23 AM NoNukes has replied

  
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