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Author Topic:   Genesis 1:1-5 — Day One
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 110 (661397)
05-04-2012 11:44 PM


The Light was Good
Why was there no light when the Earth was made?
Surely the Evolutionists will tell you that the Sun was first to form and from it the planetsall as part of the continuation of the 'Big Bang' movement. But does this really make sense? Does it make sense that light would first exist before it had anything to illuminate?
Of course not! As the opening passages of Genesis tell us, Earth was first made; after was made the light (though not yet the Sun, Moon, or Stars). Imagine the light existing first in the absence of anything. What do you imagine...?
Darkness!
There can be no light without something for it to illuminate. So in the beginning, there was nothing. Then the Earth was formed. Only then could light existbefore this time it would simply be called 'darkness'. Light was created to shine down and illuminate a world in creation (previously dark: Gen 1:2). It was created to demarcate time (Gen 1:5).
Earth was not made from the light, but light made for the Earth.
CJ
Edited by CreationJon, : No reason given.

Love your enemies!

Replies to this message:
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 Message 20 by NoNukes, posted 05-06-2012 12:29 PM Jon has replied
 Message 51 by ICANT, posted 05-11-2012 3:25 PM Jon has replied
 Message 54 by Tangle, posted 05-12-2012 10:35 AM Jon has replied
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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 110 (661411)
05-05-2012 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by vimesey
05-05-2012 5:55 AM


Re: The Light was Good
I read your post as asking a similar question about "light". Are you saying that yes, waves of photons could well have been radiating from a source before the earth was formed, but it is only when the earth was there for those waves to hit, that we can actually call them "light" ?
Well there certainly was no 'source' as you would understand it, for the Sun, Moon, and Stars were still three days off from being made. Nor was there anything for the transmission or reception of the light.
So we don't really have a falling tree that still makes a sound. What we have is a falling tree in empty space: it makes no sound nor ripples no air molecules because there are no air molecules to ripple nor people to hear.
Until matter (the 'Earth' of Genesis 1:1) and energy ('Heavens' of Gen 1:1) there would be nothing for the light force to exist in or on, and nothing for it to illuminate that we should call it light. At first instance, when the matter and energy came into existence, they were without form (Gen 1:2).
Part of the process of giving that stuff form involved the creation of mountains, the creation of Stars, the formation of dry land as separate from wet, and yes, the construction of light-transmitting particles.
On the first day, light and the ability of the Universe to carry it were madejust after the creation of matter itself.
CJ

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 110 (661421)
05-05-2012 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by jar
05-05-2012 9:32 AM


Re: The Light was Good
So you are saying that hydrogen and oxygen were made before there was light?
I am saying that before there were the necessary matters and energies light could not have existed. You can't make a log cabin without wood; and you can't have light without the necessary light matters and energies.
CJ

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by jar, posted 05-05-2012 11:34 AM Jon has replied
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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 110 (661426)
05-05-2012 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by jar
05-05-2012 11:34 AM


Re: The Light was Good
What matters and energies other than hydrogen and oxygen existed before there was light? Was helium or carbon around?
Clearly there were many matters and energies that existed before there was light. It is hard to say exactly which ones there were, but it would be my understanding from reading the text that most if not all of the necessary ingredients for Creation were made in that first instance with the Heavens and Earth. From these ingredients other things were made, light first, then plants, then ... .
So helium and carbon may well have preexisted light.
CJ
Edited by CreationJon, : No reason given.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by jar, posted 05-05-2012 11:34 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by jar, posted 05-05-2012 12:18 PM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 110 (661430)
05-05-2012 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by jar
05-05-2012 12:18 PM


Re: The Light was Good
Did X-Rays or Gamma Rays or Microwaves or Infrared Rays or Ultraviolet rays exist?
It is difficult to say. We know for certain that visible electromagnetic radiation did not exist.
The invisible kind may have preexisted light, it may have been created without mention after light, or all of the electromagnetic radiation may have been created along with visible light on the first day.
CJ

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by jar, posted 05-05-2012 12:18 PM jar has replied

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 Message 12 by jar, posted 05-05-2012 12:30 PM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 13 of 110 (661433)
05-05-2012 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by jar
05-05-2012 12:30 PM


Re: The Light was Good
Well the water was formless, is that correct?
I would assume so for two reasons: (1) the Earth was clearly without form (Gen 1:2) and the Waters may have been as well, and (2) the Waters on Earth had yet to be separated from the Waters in Heaven (Gen 1:6—8).
Granted, the text does not say that the Waters were formless. So there are some things we can read and know, and other things that we can only infer.
CJ

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by jar, posted 05-05-2012 12:30 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by jar, posted 05-05-2012 2:56 PM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 110 (661463)
05-06-2012 2:21 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by jar
05-05-2012 2:56 PM


Re: The Light was Good
we can say with some confidence that at least the infrared section of the electromagnetic spectrum existed.
Why?

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 110 (661491)
05-06-2012 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Panda
05-06-2012 7:38 AM


Re: The Light was Good
It is in our world, fully created and operational, that all things with heat (molecular motion) emit infrared radiation.
I don't see why this has to have been the case early on, when the molecules may have simply moved without emitting radiation. Even so, however; if there was infrared radiation, this is still not evidence that there must have been light before the creation of the Earth.
CJ

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Panda, posted 05-06-2012 7:38 AM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 110 (661492)
05-06-2012 8:15 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by NoNukes
05-06-2012 12:29 PM


Re: The Light was Good
Re: The Light was Good
What question does the OP ask. It seems to me that the explicit question, namely, why there was no light when the earth was made, is actually answered by CreationJon.
It also seems clear that the OP is not an invite to discuss reasons why CreationJon's theory of origins is wrong. It's pretty clear what Genesis actually says.
So why should this thread last more than three posts before the subject is exhausted? Is there actually anything more to say that would actually be on topic?
It is the standard scientific model that the Sun was first to form and from its circulating dust clouds came the planets. Since the Sun is a source of light, the conclusion cannot be avoided that there had to be light before there was a planet Earth.
This does not agree with the Official account as given in Genesis, which states that the Earth was first made and then light. Nor does it fit with the evidence that there cannot be light without anything for light to illuminate and without any of the necessary matters or energies for supporting light's existence. Clearly these matters and energies (the formless Earth) existed before light, contrary to the standard scientific opinion.
CJ

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by NoNukes, posted 05-06-2012 8:52 PM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 110 (661499)
05-06-2012 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by NoNukes
05-06-2012 8:52 PM


Re: The Light was Good
All that is required to have electromagnetic radiation in this universe is for an unbound electron to change direction, or otherwise accelerate.
Which means you need first electrons (i.e., matter (= unformed Earth)).

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 110 (661505)
05-07-2012 7:57 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by NoNukes
05-06-2012 10:51 PM


Re: The Light was Good
The cosmic background microwave radiation is evidence that electromagnetic radiation consistent with a temperature of around 3000K was prevalent a few hundred thousand years or so after the BB. That would be about 4.6 billion years before the sun or earth existed.
Assuming a Big Bang.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 110 (661506)
05-07-2012 7:59 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by jar
05-06-2012 10:55 PM


Re: The Light was Good
But we know we had more than just electrons, we had the heavens and the earth and water and gravity and helium and oxygen and protons and neutrons and the question is how we got heavens and the earth and water and gravity and helium and oxygen and protons and neutrons and electrons before light?
Ahh. Well, the simple answer is that Light was just created after many of those other things (gravity might be an exception). We have matter existing before light; maybe not all matter and certainly not in all forms, but there was matter there first, nonetheless.
CJ
Edited by CreationJon, : No reason given.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by jar, posted 05-06-2012 10:55 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Tangle, posted 05-07-2012 8:22 AM Jon has replied
 Message 33 by jar, posted 05-07-2012 9:40 AM Jon has replied
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 Message 110 by Calminian, posted 10-22-2012 1:24 AM Jon has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 110 (661508)
05-07-2012 8:48 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Tangle
05-07-2012 8:22 AM


Re: The Light was Good
What about the rest of the spectrum that we can't see? Was that there too?
As I already told jar, that's not something that's easy to say.
However, I might suspect that it wasn't there at all. It would certainly fit with the notion of the formless matter being 'void' (Gen 1:2).
CJ

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Tangle, posted 05-07-2012 8:22 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Tangle, posted 05-07-2012 1:58 PM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 110 (661525)
05-07-2012 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Tangle
05-07-2012 1:58 PM


Re: The Light was Good
So, you reckon that most of the electromagnetic spectrum from gamma rays (sub 0.1nm) to long waves (1000m+) existed but the visible spectrum - the tiny bit between 400nm and 700nm - was missing?
Well that's not what I said. Try again.
CJ

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Tangle, posted 05-07-2012 1:58 PM Tangle has replied

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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 110 (661526)
05-07-2012 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by jar
05-07-2012 9:40 AM


Re: The Light was Good
But nothing in your message answers the question I asked; "...the question is how we got heavens and the earth and water and gravity and helium and oxygen and protons and neutrons and electrons before light?"
I guess an even better question is: Do we need light for those things to exist?

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by jar, posted 05-07-2012 9:40 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by jar, posted 05-07-2012 2:52 PM Jon has replied

  
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