Evolution and Science 'so called'-

My concerns are in which use of the word 'science' is applied. This word is confined to the physicals, some of which may be called specially experimental sciences, such as chemistry, and others exact sciences, such as astronomy. But evidently uses it in that wider sense in which it includes biology, metaphysics, and philosophy. Under cover of this wide sweep of thier net, they assume to speak with the special authority of beyond scientific natures upon questions respecting which no such authority exists either in them or in anyone else. It seems to be on the strength of thier expert assumption that they designate as pseudo-science or theory any opinion, or teaching, or belief, different from thier own.I will illustrate what I mean by an example. Comparative anatomy is one of the branches of the larger science of Biology in which they are experts; and, like all the other branches which grow out of the one great stem, as a subject of physical investigation, it runs up into ideas and conceptions which belong to, or border on, the region of metaphysics. Who gives the authority beyond our sciences?Now, if not absolutely in this conclusion, all the physical facts leading up to it, Biology is an authority in the strictest sense of the word. Science is an original investigator, and if any other man were to contest thier facts, or even thier interpretation of them, without thier independent observation, Biology and science in general would be entitled to pronounce the opposition opinions to be ‘pseudo-science.'Ultimately one day maybe scientific conclusion may become itself the basis of a farther investigation, and in this farther investigation science then maybe will have no authority at all. We are all entitled to ask as a question, not of physical science, but of philosophy and interpretations.This is a question of the very highest order today in which science and biologist is not necessarily experts. That laboratory in which the analyses is made and operated is a laboratory to us all in which we can all work. And if in this higher sphere of investigation other men are able to reach conclusions which General science disputes, it is at least possible that it is thier contention, and not that of his opponent, which best deserves the ‘pseudo' prefix. They ridicule the opposition. Yet it needs no expert to see that thier own theory at best stands exactly on the same level with a term called ‘realistic figment.'I have dwelt upon this point because men are very apt to be intimidated by authorities in ‘science,' when in reality no sort of authority exists. They want to talk about 'scientific sins' quite in the language and spirit of religion. I know a good many scientific men of the very highest standing who totally dissent from biology and are by no means inclined to accept evolution expositions, even of physical science, when those expositions travel beyond the particular branch in which science is only an observer.Evolutionist propounds that these old logical difficulties which we attach to all our beliefs, and still more to all our history, are only the relations between mind and matter. That no outside authority exist and it is ours alone.In conclusion, let me express that science in general do an important service to man. Though past says, most truly, that the case with all new doctrines, and so with evolution, 'the enthusiasm of advocates has sometimes tended to degenerate into fanaticism, and mere speculation has, at times, threatened to shoot beyond its legitimate bounds.' These words indicate vaguely and tenderly, but significantly, a fact which I stated, and will again state with emphasis. There has been not merely a tendency to degeneration into fanaticism, but a pronounced development of it, and a widespread infection from it in the language of science. They accept this though this is a work which has yet to be finished to be considered facts. They can only work with the materials which are supplied by only physical means. The tendency of new doctrines to degenerate into fanaticism is one of the ‘laws’ to be traced in the long history of humans, and all those who help to resist it are among the benefactors of their kind.Edited by Admin, : Add blank lines between paragraphs and spaces after periods.

will do!thanks

Philosophy has always been hand in hand in science, recently less so.
As for metaphysics I did not intend to imply that it was but should and that it is valid as an aspect beyond our current sciences.And again knowing that there are aspects beyond our sciences means speculation is all we have in the area of evolution and Big Bang, not exzacts.

What knowledge do we have of any aspects that are beyond our science?None.So we have obtained all the aspects of science?Since when has Philosophy been hand in hand with science?It always has.Its has been less and less since physical science determines it is no longer needed.But since the beginning before science as whole was developed philosophy was inside the sciences.What makes you think there is any reason to consider metaphysics as anything other than mental masturbation or that it is valid for anything other than a good laugh?Because you and all scientist who seem to think they are authroties in the know all and be all of creation and how it became.When any real scientist knows the work is never really done because there is more to learn.You can call the step beyond what we know today anything you want,I call it metaphysics,but you know and I know there is more than what we have.What makes you think that all we have is speculation related to the Big Bang?Easy.You and I will live maybe 70 years, these theories has a whole, evolution and Big Bang, are 150 years old.Two generations.So I ask you what makes you think two generation 150 years of work is even close to determing anything beyond human growth?

Much of it that is in reason.Reaching beyond bounds into speculation is not reasonable.

Why would biology not be included to science its all measurable observable testable?Never said is was not science?As supposed to magical??? I supose we should ask angels, daemons, invisible pink unicorns, Zeus, Posajdon, and the flying spaghetti monster for some insight on magic. I do not apply magic.Though I do and I know many others as well that feel spiritual.That is beyond physical means.And just because you can not hold it, touch it, or see it, or have not exsperinced it, mean it does not apply to this topic.Ok name a few.Why?Would you put people you know that are not involved in this discussion in a online forum.Because it is not just to put peoples names inside forums without thier consent.But tones of theories have been disproven and replaced with new ones. My point and this one could as well.We used to think cold as in lack of heat was actually a particle. We used to think the world is flat, we used to think the earth is at the centre of the universe, that there is a planet Vulcan between mercury and the sun, spontaneous generation, expanding earth, Phlogiston Theory, The Martian Canals, Luminiferous Aether, The Blank Slate Theory(tabula rasa), Phrenology, Einsteins Static Universe, ohlets not forget the theory that the earth is 6000 years old and everything was created in its current form.?You havent proved that the earth isnt older than 10,000 years and to say you have lives inside fantasy.No man has ever seen something billions,millions,and even hundreds of thousands of years old to determine if thier methods are in fact correct.You must have a eye witness.If dating techniques were on trial in a court room and all evidence brought forth you would have a hard time convincing a jury without a reasonable doubt that you are right.All of these and more well maybe not the last one had evidence that supported them but along came new evidence new observations that contradicted these theories so they had to be discarded and new ones formed.
Again to early to say this one will not be disproved.

We agree there!We take two different sides of the arguement.

This tpoic I started and the breif summary i posted was a little portion of the mass study and search I have undertaking to disprove evolution as presented.I will give reasons here why and how!1)eons of evidence of giant men and animals-against evolution story and theory.2)eons of evidence of young earth and flood.3)Fossil records show creationism is possible and it actually indicates it.4)Many instances of super natural activity throught the world and all the people who claim.And finally 5)Life is to complex to be randomness.Ok another 6)Failable dating techniques.Ok just one more 7)To actually have any fossils they must have been preseved and deposited quickly and dafely to servive.If it was by casthophe.one more many recorded claims of scientist who disagree with evolution or talk about overlooked errors and evidence.
Ill be posting this here soon!thanks!for now do a excercise for yourself.check all these places and books to confirm giants.
The History of Marion County, Ohio
(complied from past accounts, published in 1883)The History of Brown County, Ohio
(complied from past accounts, published in 1883)Now and Long Ago-A History of the Marion County Area
by Glen Lough (1969)
(This citation on West Virginia courtesy Dave Cain.)collected by James Mooney (1861-1921), tells of the visit of very tall people from the west:James Wafford, of the western Cherokee, who was born in Georgia in 1806, says that his grandmother, who must have
been born about the middle of the last century, told him that she had heard from the old people that long before her time a
party of giants had once come to visit the Cherokee. They were nearly twice as tall as common men, and had their eyes
set slanting in their heads, so that the Cherokee called them Tsunil’ kalu’, "the Slant-eyed people," because they
looked like the giant hunter Tsul’ kalu’. They said that these giants lived far away in the direction in which the sun
goes down. The Cherokee received them as friends, and they stayed some time, and then returned to their home in the
west...Historical Encyclopedia of Illinois and History of Lake County
Edited by Newton Bateman, LL.D. and Paul Selby, A.M. (1902)Historical Collections of Ohio in Two Volumes
by Henry Howe, LL.D. (1888)The Firelands Pioneer (1858)Henry Schoolcraft (1793-1864):The Indian has a low, bushy brow, beneath which a dull, sleepy, half-closed eye seems to mark the ferocious passions
that are dormant within. The acute angles of the eyes seldom present the obliquity so common in the Malays and the
Mongolians. The color of the eye is almost uniformly a tint between black and grey; but even in young persons it seldom
has the brightness, or expresses the vivacity, so common in the more civilized races.Bureau of Indian Affairs (1852)Reports of Smithsonians Power and Thomas12th Annual Report of the Bureau of Ethnology to the Secretary of the Smithsonian Institution 1890-1891 (published in
1894)
(Cyrus Thomas' investigations of Etowah)Plat of the Etowah Group, Bartow County, Georgia.
Grave A (found in the largest mound of the group) contained a seven-foot skeleton having a heavy frame.12th Annual Report of the Bureau of Ethnology to the Secretary of the Smithsonian Institution 1890-1891 (published in
1894)
(explorations in the Tennessee District)12th Annual Report of the Bureau of Ethnology to the Secretary of the Smithsonian Institution 1890-1891 (published in
1894)
(explorations in Roane County, Tennessee)12th Annual Report of the Bureau of Ethnology to the Secretary of the Smithsonian Institution 1890-1891 (published in
1894)
(mounds at Dunleith, Illinois)Mound Group, Dunleith, Illinois.
"Near the original surface, 10 or 12 feet from the center, on the lower side, lying at full length on its back, was one of the
largest skeletons discovered by the Bureau agents, the length as proved by actual measurement being between 7 and 8
feet."The Adair County News
January 5, 1897
(Kentucky)12th Annual Report of the Bureau of Ethnology to the Secretary of the Smithsonian Institution 1890-1891 (published in
1894)
(Pike County, Illinois)12th Annual Report of the Bureau of Ethnology to the Secretary of the Smithsonian Institution 1890-1891 (published in
1894)
(Kanawha County, West Virginia)Spring Hill Inclosure, Kanawha County, West Virginia.
In the bottom of Mound 11 (upper left) was found a skeleton "fully seven feet long."12th Annual Report of the Bureau of Ethnology to the Secretary of the Smithsonian Institution 1890-1891 (published in
1894)
(Kanawha County, West Virginia)A Section of the Great Smith Mound, Kanawha County, West Virginia.
This cone-shaped mound rose 35 feet high and measured 175 feet in diameter at its base. The interior of the mound
contained a vault made of timber measuring 12 feet by 13 feet. It was positioned within the mound 20 feet above surface
level.12th Annual Report of the Bureau of Ethnology to the Secretary of the Smithsonian Institution 1890-1891 (published in
1894)
(Union County, Mississippi)Group of mounds in Union County,
Mississippi.A large Indian mound near the town of Gastersville, [Gastonville?”Ed.] Pa., has recently been opened and examined by
a committee of scientists sent out from the Smithsonian Institute. At some depth from the surface a kind of vault was
found in which was discovered the skeleton of a giant measuring seven feet two inches. His hair was coarse and jet black,
and hung to the waist, the brow being ornamented with a copper crown. The skeleton was remarkably well preserved...On
the stones which covered the vault were carved inscriptions, and these when deciphered, will doubtless lift the veil that
now shrouds the history of the race of people that at one time inhabited this part of the American continent. The relics
have been carefully packed and forwarded to the Smithsonian Institute, and they are said to be the most interesting
collection ever found in the United States.American Antiquarian, 7:52, 1885The question has been raised asking whether there was giant stature among the Native American people in earlier historic
times. From Hardesty's History of Monroe County, Ohio, we discovered this:He further told me of the killing of a big Indian at Buckchitawa, about the time of the settlement at Marietta. The Indians
had a white prisoner whom they forced to decoy boats to the shore. A small boat was descending the river containing
white people, when this prisoner was placed under the bank to tell those in the boat that he had escaped captivity, and to
come to the shore and take him in. The Indians were concealed, but the big Indian stuck his head out from behind a large
tree, when it was pierced by a bullet from the gun of the steersman of the boat. The Indians cried out Wetzel, Wetzel, and
fled. This was the last ever seen of the prisoner. The Indians returned next day and buried the big Indian, who, he said,
was twenty inches taller than he was, and he was a tall man. When Chester Bishop was digging a cellar for Asahel Booth,
at Clarington, many years ago, he came across a skeleton, the bones of which were removed carefully by Dr. Richard
Kirkpatrick, and from his measurement the height of the man when living would have been 8 feet and 5 inches. It is
probable that these were the bones of the big Indian of whom the Indian at Jackson's told me.The Mound at Marietta Drawn by Henry Howe in 1846.
Howe stated this mound was "of a magnitude and height which strike the beholder with astonishment." It's base had a
diameter of 115 feet; it's height reached up 30 feet. It was surrounded by a ditch four feet deep and fifteen feet wide.And again this:A large quantity of human bones was discovered in a fissure in the limestone near the United States Coast Guard
lighthouse. A crude tomb of black stone slabs, of a formation not known on the island, was found many years ago beneath
the roots of a huge stump. Eight skeletons were found, one measuring over seven feet in height.Sketches and Stories of the Lake Erie Islands
by Theresa Thorndale, Sandusky (1898)American Indian Myths and Mysteries
Vincent H. Gaddis (1977)Another grotesque twist is the Army Medical Museum's collection. According to the ABC News special "Skeletons in
the Closet," the United States government acquired a real interest in Indian corpses. The Surgeon General, in post-Civil
War 1868, requested that the army collect the skulls, utensils, and weaponry of Native Americans "as far as you are able
to procure them." According to the report, these were to be sent to Washington, D.C. as part of a program that studied
the effects of modern bullets and other weaponry on human bodies. The collection of such remains, estimated at 4,000,
was taken mostly from grave and battle sites. What was left over became part of the Smithsonian collection estimated at
18,000 individuals, and this by way of the Army Medical Museum."The Army Medical Museum in Washington" by Louis Bagger
Appletons' Journal: A Magazine Of General Literature
Volume 9, Issue 206 (1873)
the journal of christopher columbus, by c.r. markham(london, 1893)
By M.Innes (London, 1955) The terrible bodies of the giants lay crushed beneath thier own massive structures.

Absolutely.Thank you!