Denouncing religions ? [New to debate]

How does this follow? Why should a soul becoming associated with an evolved lifeform be any harder to accept than a soul becoming associated with a fertilised ovum?TTFN,WK

These questions are part of the reason science exists. There are several theories on how the chemical processes which comprise life started, you’ve probably heard of ”primordial soup’, but the specifics are vague. There are is a great book called The Collapse of Chaos by Jack Cohan and Ian Stewart (IBSN 0140291253 ) which has some interesting ideas on how chaos can ultimately create order i.e. how random events can cause complex patterns etc.And when it comes to what caused the universe to come to even exist there are a whole hurdle of questions to answer first. What is existence? What is the universe comprised of? What is nothing? How did universe begin? All of these would have to be fully addressed and irrefutable before we could answer How does existence become nothing and nothing become existence?Religions often claim to know these answers and are so resolute that conflicts occur between them. However, their answers generally can not be practically applied. Evolution doesn’t mean humans have no soul. It just doesn’t confirm that souls exist.The existence of souls has never been proven by science, and thus science has no answer as to where souls come from or where they go when you die. Science can’t say which of the 0.01% of genetic different from a chimpanzee encodes for having a soul.Different religions and opinions have different ideas on souls or lack thereof;

1. You have new soul when you are born and a supreme consciousness will judge what happens to the soul, resulting in a eternal paradise or torment, or a period of punishment that can lead to absolution.
2. You have a new soul when you are born, and at death you move onto a new realm of existence/consciousness. Your life continues but exists in a manner so different it can’t be properly perceived to those who exist only in 4 dimensions.
3. Your soul was new when creation began, but you are now an old soul reborn into a new body. Souls continue to temper themselves with life (not always as humans) until they can be freed from the mortal toil.
4. There are no souls. All individual consciousness is merely a part of a greater universal consciousness, and that dieing is just of loss of self perspective that merges you back into the greater consciousness.
5. There are no souls. With the death of the brain consciousness end and that your capacity for existence is spent.

There are probably more opinions, but those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head. My personal fave is the universal consciousness one. “We are the universe, trying to understand itself.”(But perhaps I’ve just seen Babylon 5 too many times ). You are being far too cynical! Though I get why the topic could be frustrating.Human possess intelligence and as such we are curious. We ask questions because we are intelligent enough to do so. Having these answers might, indeed, make no difference or it might make all the difference in the universe. Until we have the answers, we just don’t know whether they are worthless or not. This is part of the human condition.You shouldn’t spurn the dish untasted (unless you think it’s poisonous). Of course! (Except for the drinking part - I'm not going to advocate something so socially destructive. Heck, even eating should be done in moderation).Why should death and an unknown 'beyond’ stop anyone aiming for contentment? You still have purpose in your life.If your needs are met, you can raise your offspring in a safe environment so they can raise offspring of their own, and you are free to seek out greater understanding, then what more need you ask for? You will be happy.Of course, there are not many places in the world where all these conditions are met. Poverty, intolerance and enforced ignorance are unfortunately commonplace. Trying to dispel these is a good way of aiming for contentment, even if it is just by trying to elevate the suffering of those closest to you. Apathetic societies and those religions which encourage intolerance & ignorance can cause a lot of the suffering (that is not the direct result of random events).Edited by MadaManga, : Spelling & grammerEdited by MadaManga, : .

I drink nothing stronger than Pepsi. I have complete contentment in the position I find myself in.
I have peace, joy and happiness beyond compare. I am 67 years old and my God has always supplied everything I have ever needed. Including the most beautiful woman in the world to be my partner for the past 50 years come June 3rd.What more could anyone ask for?

What does death have to do with it? I was responding to your opninion on the origin of the soul.If you explore these forums, you might encounter the idea that the soul (if it exists) develops some time after birth. Some might say that the soul is a function of mind and so it develops as the mind develops.Some, such as you, might say that a newborn won't go to hell because it's soul is still "clean". Others might say that a newborn won't go to hell because it has no soul yet.If the soul develops from nothing, like all our other organs, then the origin of the first life is irrelevant.So, by rejecting evolution on religious grounds, you are rejecting any religions that allow for a different origin of the soul.

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Good for you! I drink nothing stronger than soft drinks either!From what I gather you are happy because you have met your needs. The fact that you are part of a forum like this indicates you are addressing the "quest for understanding". Aren't you glad you are able to do so with out someone trying to stop you

No but because my needs have been met by my God.If it had not been for my God I would not be where I am today. YESI want to be the best I can be and to do that I must study and learn. Yes it has been a great experience here. I have found area's
in my life that I was insensitive to certain things. These things I must work on and eliminate to be complete.

Hi Ringo keep making me think. I believe God made man in his image. Body, Mind, Spirit (soul) Now if there is no God there can be no soul.If as some believe God started the process and left everything up to chance you might be right but I haven't found that Bible yet.Therefore I believe to have a spirit (soul) you have to have a divine creator that put the spirit in man. And I do not understand how that could take place in something that evolved from a single cell life form that nobody knows where it came from or why.
But they can tell you about when this life form appeared according to our present scientific data.Now if you can shed some light on the orgin of the (soul) spirit of man please do.

There is nothing in that Genesis passge that suggests that our soul is the image of God's soul - only that we (in general) are an image of God (in general). Since we are talking about the hypothetical development of the soul, the "image" metaphor would require a discussion of the development of God.You probably don't want to go there (and it would be off-topic). That kinda is the topic, though. By tying your Bible and yours alone in with the question of evolution, you're effectively excluding every religion but your own. Only your Bible is right about the soul, so evolution must be wrong. I already mentioned that I think the soul/spirit/mind of an individual develops some time after birth. It's a learning process, social, environmental. It's not primarily biological, so it doesn't matter whether we evolved from chemicals or if some god zapped us into existence.Edited by Ringo, : Ye olde spellinge.

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Do you have something to base this belief on or is it just your opinion?

As far as I understand it, psychology explains the mind something like that. It is my opinion that the soul, if it exists, is a function of mind. If it is not a function of mind, can it be shown to exist?

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Well does the soul exist or not?

The question in this topic is:

quote:

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Is Creationism an attempt to denounce other religions by "scientifically" proving the holy scripture of Christians to be correct, thereby proving the holy scriptures of other religions incorrect? (Message 1)

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Whether or not the soul does exist is irrelevant. I have tried to show that there are concepts of the soul that differ from yours.I responded to (what I perceived as) your assertion that the soul "disproves" evolution. Are you are saying that your (supposedly Biblical) concept of the soul is correct and other concepts are incorrect because evolution is incorrect?

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Hi Ringo,Thanks for the answer now Back to Topic. I would say yes in general from what I have read.
I would include that from what I read evolutionists are trying to prove all religion incorrect.Now let me qualify my yes by saying everybody can not be correct.At the risk of being called a lot of names let me say if what I believe is correct there are a lot of people wrong. If what I believe is incorrect there are a lot of people wrong.

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Just because I believe it that does not make it true.

Of course that has long been proven false. There is no conflict between evolution and religion including Christianity. It is only an issue between the Christian Cult of Ignorance and other such cults and the real world.Once again. There is absolutely NO evidence that evolutionists are trying to prov all religion wrong and absolute proof that many evolutionists are religious and even Christian.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

You're still not answering the right question: Are you trying to prove religions other than your own incorrect by your stand on evolution? Does your stand on evolution invalidate other religions?

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