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Author Topic:   Did Dinosaurs live with man?
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1052 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


(2)
Message 50 of 373 (663492)
05-25-2012 3:09 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Artemis Entreri
05-24-2012 6:22 PM


Re: maybe
I think we still have some, they are called Crocodilians.
Except that crocodilians aren't dinosaurs - they're crocodilians. The ancestors of crocodiles split off from the ancestors of dinosaurs somewhere in the Late Permian or Early Triassic - about 250 million years ago.

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 Message 48 by Artemis Entreri, posted 05-24-2012 6:22 PM Artemis Entreri has seen this message but not replied

  
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1052 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 82 of 373 (664332)
05-31-2012 5:37 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by arachnophilia
05-29-2012 9:35 PM


Re: maybe
this is coelophysis (by jeff martz). he's one of the first dinosaurs, in the mid-to-late triassic. he shows all of the hallmarks of the things that differentiate dinosaurs from other sauropsids and even other archosaurs at the time. but more interestingly, he shows a lot of the hallmarks of modern birds. his bipedal posture (the thing that makes dinosaurs fundamentally different than lizards like the tuatara, and even other archosaurs like crocodiles) is one of those thing. he balances his weight over his hips, which are somewhere between those of a crocodile and a bird. he almost certainly had feathers. and he even has hollow bones (his name means "hollow structure") like a bird. this is one of the earliest dinosaurs.
I avoided commenting on the bolded bit before, because I thought it was wildly off topic, but admin just reminded me that this is in Free for All, so fuck it.
'Almost certainly' is vastly overstating the case. It's controversial exactly where feathers arose in dinosaur evolution, but we do have preserved scaly skin impressions showing that not all dinosaurs were completely covered in feathers; and in at least one case an entire mummified dinosaur excellently preserved that shows no sign of feathers anywhere. There are a couple of examples of integument in ornithischian and sauropod dinosaurs which have been suggested to be primitive feathers, but this is controversial.
Coelophysis is a theropod, but a very early theropod. Every clear example we have of feathers from the fossil record is from a coelurosaurian theropod, and Coelophysis lies outside that clade. It might have been feathered, but at the minute that's just speculation. Feathers might be a synapomorphy of Coelurosauria.

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 Message 59 by arachnophilia, posted 05-29-2012 9:35 PM arachnophilia has replied

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caffeine
Member (Idle past 1052 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


(1)
Message 85 of 373 (664357)
05-31-2012 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by Artemis Entreri
05-31-2012 11:16 AM


Re: maybe
I just never really gave it much thought after middle school. For me dinosaur = relatively large reptiles that lived millions of years ago, and went extinct in the K-T extinction event sixty-something million years ago. There were all kinds of Dinosaurs, some flew, some were aquatic, some were carnivorous, and some were herbivores. I think due to the common knowledge of them and the huge amount of press they get I was under the impression that 100 million years ago everything was a dinosaur. You don’t hear much about the other creatures of the time and when you do they are still in the book titled Dinosaurs of the Cretaceous, or I had a book about old animals that started with Eryops (300 mya) and moved through the evolutionary line to Triceratops (65mya) and the book was a book about dinosaurs. It fostered a childhood interest in something besides He-Man and GI-Joe, and I loved going to the museum of natural history to see the Dinosaur exhibits, and fossils, but I never really gave it much thought. I heard that Crocodilians have been around since the time of the dinosaurs, and I guess I assumed they were them. It could be me, but the information given at museums and in these coffee table and kid’s books is somewhat misleading (not on evolution, that seemed a given since I could read).
I think this sort of misconception is common, and is a result of marketing really. It's because the name 'dinosaur' has such name recognition - that's what sells. You want to write some popular about aetosaurs, or seymouriamorphs, or whatnot, then it won't get much attention, since nobody knows what an aetosaur or seymouriamorph is. What sells is dinosaurs; so you call your book:
quote:
DINOSAURS!
and other prehistoric animals

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caffeine
Member (Idle past 1052 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


(2)
Message 103 of 373 (664782)
06-05-2012 7:10 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by Artemis Entreri
06-04-2012 11:56 AM


Re: maybe
So how many Jurassic Dinos had feathers? Did the T-rex?
The small relatives of T. Rexes had feathers, but skin impressions from big Tyrannosaurids show that they had scaly skin at least over part of their bodies; with no sign of feathers. They probably lost their feathers when they got big for the same reasons that elephants have very little hair - big animals retain more heat, so a big, feathered T. Rex might have overheated.
However, while most of the body would be naked, there's no reason that a T. Rex couldn't have some feathers, perhaps for display. I like the idea of a giant, predatory dinosaur with a big fancy crest of feathers to impress the ladies. It's also possible that the babies were born covered in fluffy feathers that fell out when they got big.

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