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Author Topic:   AiG's Strategy: Indoctrinate and Isolate
dwise1
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Posts: 5951
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


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Message 24 of 79 (663686)
05-26-2012 5:48 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Taq
05-25-2012 5:40 PM


The creationists are trying to isolate their members? No, that is what they used to have. Now with the Internet and the World Wide Web, they are no longer able to isolate their members. Sure, they want to regain that level of control, but in all honesty, they've lost it.
AiG really does point to evidence as justification for a belief in creationism. They are trying to have their cake and eat it too, at least in my view.
I worked two summers in Germany, 1973 and 1974.
One year, a German co-worker offered me an assessment of Operation Barbarosa, the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941. He said that up to the point, Hitler had been spreading his propaganda about German capabilities being so high and their equipage being so high, that he had worked himself into a corner. Even though the Germans were nowhere near ready for a protracted confrontation with the Soviets, his entire propaganda machinery kept proclaiming that they were more than ready. So he had to move, even though he was not actually ready to.
After that summer, my Russian History professor offered another interpretation: the continental European mind has no concept of actual distances. On the Continent, you can cross an entire nation within one single day or far less. With Blitzkrieg, you can overrun an entire nation (eg, Poland) within a single day or so. But then the Wehrmacht set out against the Soviet Union. And day after day after week after week after month they ground their way through the steppes of Russia, arriving at the top of the nex hill only to see yet another expanse of steppe leading to the top of the next hill only to see yet another expanse of steppe ... . Similarly, a European with friends in different parts of the USA cannot understand why friends situated 3,000 miles distant cannot just quickly pop over for a quick visit, just like in Europe.
Similarly, creationist propaganda says that it has mountains of evidence. What evidence? They never present it.
In 1985, I attended a creationist debate in Long Beach, Calif. The opposite sides were Dr. Henry Morris and Dr. Henry Morris of the Institute for Creation Research (ICR) vs Dr. Frank Awbrey and Dr. Bill Thwaites of San Diego State University. Before the debate, I had been discussing at work with a creationist, who also attended the same debate in Long Beach. Part of the discussion at work had pertained to Dr. Duane Gish's bogus claims about the bombadier beetle. When I connected with my work-place friend at that debate, almost every creationist table proudly displayed their books on the bombadier beetle, already proven to be bogus, and to him a glaring example of a creationist failing.
At the end of that debate, I had extra grist to grind, especially regarding the ICR's false moondust claims. But I especially remember my friend leaving that debate muttering the same thing over and over again: "We have mountains of evidence for creation. Why didn't they present any of it? We have mountains of evidence ..."
I didn't see him until a few years later. At that point, he was completely and totally disenchanted with creationists.
Also, creationists are themselves entrapped by their own lies. By their own propaganda, as described by my German co-worker.
Of course, we all know that the only reason why creationists oppose the teaching of evolution in the schools is because of their religious beliefs. But in the wake of Epperson vs Arkansas (1968), et al., that purely religious opposition to evolution is no longer valid. So they lie about their opposition to evolution as being "scientific", even though everybody, and finally the federal courts circa 1987, knew that was just an enormous lie.
{the entire idea of having to shield Christian children from reality}
I agree that it is absolutely and positively ridiculous.
If Christian truths are indeed true, then they should have nothing to fear from reality.
But reality shows that those "Christian truths" are all bogus and false.
The Christian response is to try to protect their so-called "truths" to be protected from reality.
The response by those who are actually interested in the truth is, "What the f***?" The response by those who care nothing for the truth, but rather are blindly beholding to dogma, is to ignore that there is any question.
The real problem is that the genie is out of the bottle.
The creationist community, the fundamentalist community, used to be limited and isolated. But no longer. The Worldwide Web has eliminated that. Those fundamentalist students whom you used to be able to limit? No longer! They can now go out and converse with others. Oh, sure, those first communications are ... weird. Creationists first communicating with normals? But once the genie is out of the bottle, there's no stopping it! OK, too many creationists are unable to handle it, but I don't know what we can do for them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Taq, posted 05-25-2012 5:40 PM Taq has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5951
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 31 of 79 (663765)
05-26-2012 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by jar
05-26-2012 1:28 PM


Re: Folk like AIG are the best recruiters Atheism could possibly find.
About as good as a Masters of Science from the Institute for Creation Research Graduate School. When the accredidation visitation committee was there, they witnessed the biochemistry class in session. It used the same textbook as a leading university class would, but the instructor was leading the class through the book, page by page, telling them what to cross out because "We don't believe that."
BJU is known for "spring cleaning", as the student body calls it. They take your money and then towards the end of the semester or even when you're just a couple weeks from graduating, they expel you for having committed serious offenses, such as watching "Glee": http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-782503
One response on that CNN page about Chris Peterman's expulsion was from a graduate of BJU:
quote:
I graduated from BJU a long time ago and I wish I had been kicked out because the stigma of that association, never ends. Anytime someone asks where I earned my undergrad, after I tell them, there's always this shocked look and then a number of follow up questions as they try and figure out if I'm one of the crazies or someone who broke free. It is very cult like. You're not only expected to have the identical religious views as everyone else, you're expected to have the same social and political views; the same taste in pop culture, fashion etc. Everyone is even required to cut their hair essentially the same way. Any deviation on those choices is considered a sign that your "heart isn't right with God" and you become the subject of prayer circles. One of my friends was expelled for kissing his girlfriend. Another was expelled because his wife left him. I was permanently banned from campus because years after my graduation I wrote a letter to the local newspaper disagreeing with them on a local issue. Despite it having nothing to do with religion, I was told by the then President that I was siding with Satan instead of with Jesus (simply because I had disagreed with the pious BJ III. Apparently he Jesus are equals).
In the past decade they've loosened up a bit since Stephen Jones became president. They removed the barbed wire from the front campus, they ended their interracial dating prohibition, and they just recently renamed one of their dorms that was previously named after Bibb Graves, an Exalted Cyclops in the KKK. I've even seen some students with facial hair in recent years (girls mostly though - j/k).
Consider yourself fortunate Chris and move on.
Edited by dwise1, : added quote

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by jar, posted 05-26-2012 1:28 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
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