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Author Topic:   Does exorcism work?
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3990
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 31 of 57 (642387)
11-28-2011 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by jar
11-27-2011 10:27 PM


Re: Buddhist and Taoist Exorcisms
jar writes:
And laughter will persuade soot spirits to leave.
And a lack of donations will usually clear the airwaves of those pesky evangelical spirits.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by jar, posted 11-27-2011 10:27 PM jar has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 57 (642389)
11-28-2011 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Theodoric
11-27-2011 11:45 PM


Re: Other Cultures Acknowledged
Omnivorous writes:
It seems that most pagan activity did not involve casting out of humans as much as chasing off evil spirits and entities from a village etc.
Your reason for coming to this conclusion is?
Pre-Islamic Mecca is a good example, where some 200 or so pagan cultures assembled, hanging their fetishes used to ward off evil spirits, etc.
Many pagan cultures apply fetishes for this purpose.
Devout RCC adherents apply medals, do beads, pay penances etc in their hopes of blessings and avoidance of evil coming to them.
The ancient pagan practice of passing children through fire was to intended as a sacrificial ritual to dispel evil.
This one's for you, Jar, Ringo, et al.
Native Americans used a spider web like dreamcatcher to dispel evil spirits. Mmm, what happened to Jar's Dreamcatcher aspirations?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Theodoric, posted 11-27-2011 11:45 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 33 of 57 (642391)
11-28-2011 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Buzsaw
11-28-2011 10:11 AM


Re: Other Cultures Acknowledged
Like painting the lintel of a door with blood to ward off the Angel of Death?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Buzsaw, posted 11-28-2011 10:11 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9197
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 34 of 57 (642392)
11-28-2011 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Buzsaw
11-28-2011 10:11 AM


Re: Other Cultures Acknowledged
Well good to see you reasons for coming to conclusions are not based on evidence.
So RCC are pagans?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Buzsaw, posted 11-28-2011 10:11 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 57 (642394)
11-28-2011 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Theodoric
11-28-2011 11:37 AM


Re: Other Cultures Acknowledged
Theodoric writes:
So RCC are pagans?
Read Alexander Hyslop's THE TWO BABYLONS. You will learn how Emperor Constantine, a pagan Roman ruler, in the 4th century AD espoused Christianity and essentially merged paganistic rituals into an adulterated form of Christianity. He became both pontfix maximus, i.e. the first pope and ruler of the Roman Empire.
Thus, the non-Biblical paganistic doctrines/practices of the RCC church and the the Revelation 17,18 prophetic Mystery Babylon.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Straggler, posted 11-28-2011 1:46 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 46 by Rrhain, posted 11-30-2011 3:39 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 93 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 36 of 57 (642406)
11-28-2011 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Buzsaw
11-28-2011 12:53 PM


Re: Other Cultures Acknowledged
Buz - All sorts of nominally Christian rituals and practices have Pagan elements and influences don't they?
Why do you think Christian dealings with evil spirits (e.g. exorcisms) would be different?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Buzsaw, posted 11-28-2011 12:53 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Buzsaw, posted 11-28-2011 3:33 PM Straggler has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 57 (642413)
11-28-2011 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Straggler
11-28-2011 1:46 PM


Re: Biblical Exorcism vs Pagan Etc.
Straggler writes:
Why do you think Christian dealings with evil spirits (e.g. exorcisms) would be different?
The primary difference is that the Biblical methodology involves no objects or physical applications. It's just proclamations verbally, perhaps preceded by a period personal fasting by the exorcist.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Straggler, posted 11-28-2011 1:46 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by jar, posted 11-28-2011 4:57 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 41 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-28-2011 11:18 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 44 by Straggler, posted 11-29-2011 6:02 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 47 by Larni, posted 11-30-2011 5:32 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 38 of 57 (642422)
11-28-2011 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Buzsaw
11-28-2011 3:33 PM


Re: Biblical Exorcism vs Pagan Etc.
It doesn't hurt to have a herd of pigs and a lake it seems; I would think that those would count as objects.
Of course, some evidence that demons actually exist would strengthen the case.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Buzsaw, posted 11-28-2011 3:33 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Buzsaw, posted 11-28-2011 6:18 PM jar has replied
 Message 49 by Phat, posted 06-22-2014 2:22 AM jar has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 57 (642430)
11-28-2011 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by jar
11-28-2011 4:57 PM


Re: Biblical Exorcism vs Pagan Etc.
jar writes:
It doesn't hurt to have a herd of pigs and a lake it seems; I would think that those would count as objects.
Of course, some evidence that demons actually exist would strengthen the case.
Regarding your example, the exorcist, in this case, Jesus, simply applied words, allowing the demons their request. He applied nothing physical to exorcise the demons from the man.
Jesus, graciously regarded the life and soul of the human above that of a herd of brute beasts which were raised for ultimate purpose of slaughter for man's food.
As for the existence of demons, there exists no better explanation for observable extreme evil phenomena?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by jar, posted 11-28-2011 4:57 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by jar, posted 11-28-2011 6:52 PM Buzsaw has not replied
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 40 of 57 (642435)
11-28-2011 6:52 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Buzsaw
11-28-2011 6:18 PM


the only demons are our fantasies
He didn't ask the pigs if they wanted to host the demons, and note that he did not pick a species that would be food for the Jews.
And of course there exists better explanations for observable extreme evil behavior including fanatical religious beliefs, neurosis, chemical imbalances, poisoning and even the belief itself that there are such things as demons.
Do you have any evidence that there are demons?
Edited by jar, : appalin spallin

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 311 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(4)
Message 41 of 57 (642446)
11-28-2011 11:18 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Buzsaw
11-28-2011 3:33 PM


Re: Biblical Exorcism vs Pagan Etc.
The primary difference is that the Biblical methodology involves no objects or physical applications.
And God was doing extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul, so that even handkerchiefs or aprons that had touched his skin were carried away to the sick, and their diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them. --- Acts 19:11-12

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Wollysaurus
Member (Idle past 4518 days)
Posts: 52
From: US
Joined: 08-25-2011


(4)
Message 42 of 57 (642447)
11-28-2011 11:29 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Dr Adequate
11-28-2011 11:18 PM


Re: Biblical Exorcism vs Pagan Etc.
The same could be said even of healing... mixing dirt and saliva, to be rubbed in the eyes of the blind.
The ritual healings/exorcisms in the NT are much more in line with known magical practices of the time than many would like. The Incredible Shrinking Son of Man by Robert Price is a decent read covering some of these issues.

This message is a reply to:
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frako
Member (Idle past 333 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(2)
Message 43 of 57 (642466)
11-29-2011 5:52 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Buzsaw
11-28-2011 6:18 PM


Re: Biblical Exorcism vs Pagan Etc.
Regarding your example, the exorcist, in this case, Jesus, simply applied words, allowing the demons their request. He applied nothing physical to exorcise the demons from the man.
Jesus, graciously regarded the life and soul of the human above that of a herd of brute beasts which were raised for ultimate purpose of slaughter for man's food.
So when the exorcist is showering the victim with holy watter and beating him over the head with a cross thats the wrong way to do it
As for the existence of demons, there exists no better explanation for observable extreme evil phenomena?
Umm what evil phenomena when someone is mentally ill ???

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Buzsaw, posted 11-28-2011 6:18 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 93 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 44 of 57 (642467)
11-29-2011 6:02 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Buzsaw
11-28-2011 3:33 PM


Re: Biblical Exorcism vs Pagan Etc.
Buz writes:
The primary difference is that the Biblical methodology involves no objects or physical applications. It's just proclamations verbally, perhaps preceded by a period personal fasting by the exorcist.
Even if that is true I remain mystified as to why this would be considered an important difference or in any way make Christian/biblical exorcisms superior in any way? Can you explain why you think this is important?
Secondly - Is it true? Crucifixes, holy water, robes etc. etc. etc. Aren't all of these typically a part of Christian exorcisms?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Buzsaw, posted 11-28-2011 3:33 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 762 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


(1)
Message 45 of 57 (642486)
11-29-2011 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Straggler
11-29-2011 6:02 AM


Re: Biblical Exorcism vs Pagan Etc.
Crucifixes, holy water, robes etc. etc. etc. Aren't all of these typically a part of Christian exorcisms?
Silly Straggler! Those are part of Cathlick exorcisms, not Christian ones.

This message is a reply to:
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