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Author Topic:   Counter-Apologetics
ringo
Member
Posts: 17283
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 9 of 101 (664633)
06-03-2012 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by LexM1985
06-02-2012 7:34 PM


Re: possible sources
There is no secret weapon. You can't catch every fish in the sea. The ones that get away will feel smugly superior to the ones you catch.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by LexM1985, posted 06-02-2012 7:34 PM LexM1985 has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17283
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 26 of 101 (664895)
06-06-2012 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by foreveryoung
06-06-2012 1:58 AM


foreveryoung writes:

Let me be immature till the day I die, I don't care.


I hate to break it to you but you're showing some signs of maturity already.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by foreveryoung, posted 06-06-2012 1:58 AM foreveryoung has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17283
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 47 of 101 (846370)
01-05-2019 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by Thugpreacha
01-04-2019 3:12 PM


Re: Why Apologise for Apologetics?
Phat writes:

I fail to see why his argument is bad however.


Why don't you bring his arguments here? If you tried to explain them in your own words, maybe they wouldn't seem so rational after all.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-04-2019 3:12 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-05-2019 2:23 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17283
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 49 of 101 (846379)
01-05-2019 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Thugpreacha
01-05-2019 2:23 PM


Re: Why Apologise for Apologetics?
Phat writes:

I just did. Look up a couple of posts.


That's just philosophical gibberish. If you're going to defend apologists, defend their positions on Christian doctrine.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-05-2019 2:23 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-05-2019 2:48 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17283
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 51 of 101 (846382)
01-05-2019 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Thugpreacha
01-05-2019 2:48 PM


Re: Why Apologise for Apologetics?
Phat writes:

I'd have to really dissect what Ravi says concerning doctrine, but its nothing new that we have not discussed.


If it makes so much sense to you, you must have already disected it.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-05-2019 2:48 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-05-2019 2:58 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17283
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 53 of 101 (846384)
01-05-2019 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Thugpreacha
01-05-2019 2:58 PM


Re: Why Apologise for Apologetics?
Phat writes:

Thinking back, Im trying to compile a summary of *YOUR* Doctrine...


You complain that I don't respect apologists. I'm trying to find out what it is that you think I should respect.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-05-2019 2:58 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-05-2019 3:11 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17283
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 55 of 101 (846388)
01-05-2019 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Thugpreacha
01-05-2019 3:11 PM


Re: Why Apologise for Apologetics?
Phat writes:

You confidently proclaim them as simply WRONG, as if you've somehow won an intellectual chess game.


If they don't show up for the game, I win by default. I'd rather have a more decisive win but it's hard to get you to pry them out of their videos.

Phat writes:

I challenge your premature conclusion...


But you don't actually challenge it. You just say you do.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-05-2019 3:11 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-05-2019 3:29 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17283
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 57 of 101 (846401)
01-05-2019 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Thugpreacha
01-05-2019 3:29 PM


Re: Why Apologise for Apologetics?
Phat writes:

Sorry...I prefer videos. Is it my fault you cant watch them?


Is it my fault you can't present the arguments in your own words?

Phat writes:

So I guess our question is this: Is there such a thing as absolute morality?


Well, of course there's no such thing as absolute morality. Nobody has more relative morality than Christians. After all, God's "absolute morality" doesn't even apply to Himself.

But you can see the dishonesty of the apologist right there. He's arguing against subjective morality, which is a strawman.

And again, what has that got to do with specific Christian doctrines?


And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-05-2019 3:29 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-05-2019 4:18 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17283
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 60 of 101 (846405)
01-05-2019 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by NosyNed
01-05-2019 4:01 PM


Re: Discussions
NosyNed writes:

Some of them are so weak that when you try to write it out as clearly as possible it becomes apparent that there is nothing to say.


My post count would be a lot higher if every thought was as brilliant written down as it is in my head.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by NosyNed, posted 01-05-2019 4:01 PM NosyNed has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17283
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 62 of 101 (846412)
01-05-2019 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Thugpreacha
01-05-2019 4:18 PM


Re: Why Apologise for Apologetics?
Phat writes:

Jesus is more reliable...apart from tipping over a few tables and killing a tree, He showed little in the way of instability.


Not true. He spoke of sending the goats to everlasting fire. And Revelation has its share of death, doom and destruction too. The God of the WHOLE Bible has a pretty consistent violent nature. Discounting the Old Testament just won't fly.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-05-2019 4:18 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-05-2019 5:02 PM ringo has responded
 Message 81 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-08-2019 9:14 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17283
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 66 of 101 (846418)
01-05-2019 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Thugpreacha
01-05-2019 5:02 PM


Re: Why Apologise for Apologetics?
Phat writes:

The goats need to be burned up.


You're missing the point: The God of the New Testament is the same as the God of the Old Testament. You have no rationale for accepting the New and rejecting the Old.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-05-2019 5:02 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-07-2019 1:27 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17283
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 68 of 101 (846484)
01-07-2019 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Thugpreacha
01-07-2019 1:27 PM


Re: Why Apologise for Apologetics?
Phat writes:

Jesus is hardly like Jehovah.


As I pointed out, He is the same. He talked about sending the goats to everlasting fire.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-07-2019 1:27 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-07-2019 1:45 PM ringo has responded
 Message 70 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-07-2019 1:51 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17283
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 71 of 101 (846487)
01-07-2019 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Thugpreacha
01-07-2019 1:45 PM


Re: Why Apologise for Apologetics?
Phat writes:

OK, let's say that He did. You hardly have legal credentials to represent the goats, do you? What will you argue before the Court?


What do legal credentials and courts have to do with anything? It doesn't matter whether or not the goats and the Flood victims "deserved" to be punished. The point is that the Jehovah of the Old Testament and the Jesus of the New Testament have exactly the same approach - genocide.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-07-2019 1:45 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17283
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 72 of 101 (846488)
01-07-2019 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Thugpreacha
01-07-2019 1:51 PM


Re: Why Apologise for Apologetics?
Phat writes:

Besides, I know your legal strategy!


It... has... nothing... to... do... with... legality.

It's about comparing oranges to oranges. The Old Testament orange is the same as the New Testament orange. It doesn't matter whether they are real or fictional. It doesn't matter how much respect one has for Loki or Quezalquatl. It doesn't matter whether scientists believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

The fact is that the God of the Old Testament and the Jesus of the New Testament are equally bloodthirsty - according to the ONLY source of information you have. Your "loving" God is made up.


And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-07-2019 1:51 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-07-2019 3:59 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17283
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 84 of 101 (846526)
01-08-2019 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by Thugpreacha
01-07-2019 3:59 PM


Re: Why Apologise for Apologetics?
Phat writes:

You first went off the rails when you logically deduced that science determines reality.


You're showing your true anti-science colors.

Phat writes:

You cannot claim that you are forced to go where the evidence leads you, for you have rejected belief.


The evidence leads me to reject belief.

Phat writes:

You have even said that belief should be a last resort.


OF COURSE it should be a last resort. How can you even suggest otherwise and still claim to have the slightest respect for science?

Phat writes:

After reading your last final insistence that your argument is sound, however, i am feeling as if you will never change it no matter how much I send back at you.


But you're not sending anything back.

When my brother was about five years old, we tried to explain to him that the earth is not flat. His response was, "But I think it is." We'd explain the evidence and he'd return, "But I think it is." No matter what we said, his answer would be, "But I think it is."

Your behaviour is exactly the same. You use, "I believe," as an excuse to park your brain at the door and throw the evidence out the window. You even have the gall to suggest that rejecting belief is a bad thing. That's frustrating enough in a five-year-old but there's no excuse for such behaviour in an adult.

Phat writes:

It seems odd for someone to preach a message that God was literary fiction, Jesus was embellished, both were bloodthirsty according to the books, and that we are expected to do it ourselves!


Why?

Phat writes:

One cannot assume that everything is simply fiction just because they have never had reason to think otherwise.


Yes, that's EXACTLY what we should all do. Truth is not a default.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-07-2019 3:59 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-27-2019 2:30 PM ringo has responded

  
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