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Author | Topic: Supreme Court upholds Obamacare | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
I gather from the article that this was a blast fax w/ a 4% response rate. How accurate can those numbers really be? Color me skeptical. You gotta be careful with any survey. For all we know, only the docs who were already pissed off were the ones who took the survey. I don't know if 4% is a good return or not. I'm not asking you to drop any skepticism.
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Shield Member (Idle past 2882 days) Posts: 482 Joined:
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Meh. Apples and Oranges. Those countries have a fraction of the population that we do. First, that not true. Germanys 80 million+ citizens is hardly a fraction. Neither is britains 60 mil+. Second, why do you think that population size matter? Really, tell me.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Meh. Apples and Oranges. Those countries have a fraction of the population that we do. First, that not true. Germanys 80 million+ citizens is hardly a fraction. Neither is britains 60 mil+. Well, those fractions would be about 1/4 and 1/5, respectively.
Second, why do you think that population size matter? Really, tell me. It seems straight forward to me that the more people you've got to take care of, the harder its going to be. Should I think otherwise? Only two countries have more people than the US; China and India (which have about 5x and 4x the population of the US, respectively) How's their healthcare rank? According to the WHO ranking, China is 144th and India 112th.
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Shield Member (Idle past 2882 days) Posts: 482 Joined: |
What, do you think, that theres a fixed number of doctors, nurses, facilities etc., per country?
China and India (which have about 5x and 4x the population of the US, respectively) China has a per capita GDP of $5,413, India's $3,693 and the US? $48,386. See, thats why. Germany has a rather more comparable GDP per capita at $43,741. Comparing US healthcare to China or Indias, is comparing apple and oranges.. Comparing US healthcare with western europe healthcare makes sense.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
China has a per capita GDP of $5,413, India's $3,693 and the US? $48,386. See, thats why. Germany has a rather more comparable GDP per capita at $43,741. Does Germany have the same "1%" problem that the US has? What's the numbers for the people in the bottom 5% or so look like? How many poor, uneducated, and/or overweight people does Germany have? How's the environment compare? Geographical distribution? Population density? There's a shit-pile of variables...
Comparing US healthcare to China or Indias, is comparing apple and oranges.. Comparing US healthcare with western europe healthcare makes sense. Well I disagree and I'm not just going to take your word for it. ABE Clarification: I don't mean that I disagree that comparing to China or India is apples to oranges. I disagree with the second sentence. Edited by Catholic Scientist, : see ABE
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Taq Member Posts: 10033 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
So? Does that make their complaints unfounded?
It makes their complaints irrelevant.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
So? Does that make their complaints unfounded?
It makes their complaints irrelevant. I think they're still interesting. We kinda need the doctors in order to have healthcare...
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Jon Inactive Member |
We kinda need the doctors in order to have healthcare... We don't need those doctors, though.Love your enemies!
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
We kinda need the doctors in order to have healthcare...
We don't need those doctors, though. How do you know?
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PsychMJC Member (Idle past 1322 days) Posts: 36 From: Modesto, California Joined: |
A larger percentage of the US population thinks the world is going to end in 2012. Those number hardly seem like something to worry about, especially after you've read their methodology.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9140 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3
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You berate Buz for not having a source and when a source is provided you Poison the Well.
Poison the well? Really? Maybe you should look up what that really means. The Fraser Institute is a conservative, libertarian-right organization. Do you dispute this? They have history of attacking the canadian health care system. Do you dispute this?This organization you used as a source has no source for their data other than themselves. I have presented facts about the organization and the horrendous methodology they have used to reach the conclusions they wanted to reach. Again, this is not research, this is propaganda. Which was your methodology as well. Buz made a claim that you wanted to prove wrong so you claim you refuted it by Googling up some data from ~15 years ago
But you have presented nothing to refute those sources or to show that it is different today. Must I repeat again. YOUR SOURCE SAYS NOTHING ABOUT CANADIANS COMING TO THE USA OR WHY THEY WENT OUT OF CANADA. This report does not support the contention that Canadians are coming to the USA in droves for medical care. Please show me how it supports that position. Have you done any research about US citizens traveling abroad for healthcare? Go ahead do some research we are talking about millions of people. Their report has methodological issues and puts forward a number of assumptions that the data can not support. From the report.
quote: Look at those references. It is the Fraser Institute. Esmail is the author of this report. Please go to those articles and show me where they support this conclusion. Both of these references read like propaganda with hard data lacking sorely.
You forgot the biggest factor: their results don't agree with your preconceived notion. Better attack the source!
So you expect everyone to accept everything your present uncritically? I see you have nothing to support their methodology or conclusions.
Actually, a better percentage would be that of those seeking medical attention rather than that of the entire population.
Why? So you think 43,000 is a large % of what ever you want it to be a percentage of? Again do research on US citizens traveling abroad for health care and once again. YOUR SOURCE SAYS NOTHING ABOUT CANADIANS COMING TO THE USA
Of the times that people went to other countries, what percentage do you think were to the US? More than 90%?
I have no idea there is no data presented to reach any conclusions. BTW, you did read in my last post about Ontario working with US hospitals didn't you? Would you consider that a failing of Canadian healthcare?
Meh. Apples and Oranges. Those countries have a fraction of the population that we do.
So the US should expect worse healthcare because we are bigger? If you are going to make an assertion like this please back it up with a cogent argument.
So any evidence at all that Canadians are coming over to the US in droves for healthcare? Any evidence at all that a significant percentage of Canadians prefer the US system as opposed to theirs? Why? You want to poison some more wells? Well as those are thearguments you are attempting to make, it would behoove you to provide some evidence. Your source did not support either of these contentions. Showing bias and lack of support for your argument is not poisoning the well. It is a rational argument.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Jon Inactive Member |
How do you know? Because political views have nothing to do with a person's medical abilities. Love your enemies!
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Because political views have nothing to do with a person's medical abilities. Wait... then how would these doctors' political views mean that we don't need them?
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9140 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
Number of doctors in USA
661, 400 Source Number responding to survey 699 Oh my god. You expect this survey to have any semblance of credibility? This is without even looking at how the answers they received do not support their conclusions. I think your preconceived beliefs have overtaken your ability to examine data critically.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
I think your preconceived beliefs have overtaken your ability to examine data critically. Why?
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