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Author Topic:   German judge rules child circumcision as child abuse.
jar
Member (Idle past 133 days)
Posts: 34140
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


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Message 31 of 410 (666693)
06-29-2012 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by crashfrog
06-29-2012 2:22 PM


Re: Should be outlawed
That would depend on the specific individual circumstances. I don't think a child though has many rights.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by crashfrog, posted 06-29-2012 2:22 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by crashfrog, posted 06-29-2012 4:52 PM jar has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 3245 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(2)
Message 32 of 410 (666694)
06-29-2012 2:25 PM


You guys are forgetting the most important part! Women LOVE a snipped penis. Ask 'em...they'll admit it.
Eveyone should have it done, it's a nicer presentation.
- Oni

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by xongsmith, posted 06-29-2012 2:42 PM onifre has not replied
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Jon
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 33 of 410 (666695)
06-29-2012 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by crashfrog
06-29-2012 2:22 PM


Re: Should be outlawed
Don't you think a child has a right not to be tattooed against their will?
Plenty of cultures tattoo children.
It's really a non-issue.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by crashfrog, posted 06-29-2012 2:22 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by crashfrog, posted 06-29-2012 2:26 PM Jon has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1761 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


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Message 34 of 410 (666696)
06-29-2012 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Jon
06-29-2012 11:44 AM


Re: Be Happy with who you ARE!
And a foreskin is just that: a foreskin.
Right, it's a foreskin - a useful and extremely nerve-rich portion of the penis, the loss of which is known to be blunting to sexual pleasure.
So what if the parents want to cut it off their kids?
What if the kid grows up and wants to have had one? Don't they have a right to their own bodies? Certainly we allow medical necessity to override bodily sovereignty when it comes to children - or adults, even, sometimes. But we don't allow cosmetic necessity to do so, and we shouldn't allow religious "necessity" to do so either.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Jon, posted 06-29-2012 11:44 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Jon, posted 06-29-2012 2:36 PM crashfrog has replied
 Message 40 by ringo, posted 06-29-2012 2:46 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1761 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


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Message 35 of 410 (666697)
06-29-2012 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Jon
06-29-2012 2:25 PM


Re: Should be outlawed
Plenty of cultures tattoo children.
But should they? That was my question.
Or is it just that you don't believe there's any such thing as a human right?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Jon, posted 06-29-2012 2:25 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by jar, posted 06-29-2012 2:29 PM crashfrog has not replied
 Message 38 by Jon, posted 06-29-2012 2:37 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 133 days)
Posts: 34140
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


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Message 36 of 410 (666698)
06-29-2012 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by crashfrog
06-29-2012 2:26 PM


Re: Should be outlawed
Or is it just that you don't believe there's any such thing as a human right?
I don't believe there is any such thing as a human right except those established by a State, culture or society and those rights are peculiar to that State, culture or society.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by crashfrog, posted 06-29-2012 2:26 PM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Kairyu, posted 06-29-2012 3:28 PM jar has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 37 of 410 (666699)
06-29-2012 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by crashfrog
06-29-2012 2:25 PM


Re: Be Happy with who you ARE!
Right, it's a foreskin - a useful and extremely nerve-rich portion of the penis, the loss of which is known to be blunting to sexual pleasure.
Evidence?
What if the kid grows up and wants to have had one?
If they really hate who they are so much, they can have one made.
But I really can't imagine anyone hating that they are circumcised except for people with other underlying psychological disorders.
Psychologically healthy people are happy with who they are.
Don't they have a right to their own bodies?
No. They're children.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by crashfrog, posted 06-29-2012 2:25 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
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Jon
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 38 of 410 (666700)
06-29-2012 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by crashfrog
06-29-2012 2:26 PM


Re: Should be outlawed
Plenty of cultures tattoo children.
But should they?
And it's not for me or you to decide whether or not they should.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by crashfrog, posted 06-29-2012 2:26 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2636
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.1


(1)
Message 39 of 410 (666701)
06-29-2012 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by onifre
06-29-2012 2:25 PM


Onifre says:
You guys are forgetting the most important part! Women LOVE a snipped penis. Ask 'em...they'll admit it.
Eveyone should have it done, it's a nicer presentation.
Actually I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. What I could say is that the companies that make lubricants (K-Y anyone?) probably sell a lot more to the snipped than the unsnipped. Perhaps you are alluding to the uncleaned being worse when unsnipped. That's a different topic. And we aren't talking condoms either....
To me it is a barbaric practice, not at all on the scale of female genital mutilation, but still a crude barbaric practice done only to keep the particular religious leaders in power happy.....

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member (Idle past 706 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


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Message 40 of 410 (666703)
06-29-2012 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by crashfrog
06-29-2012 2:25 PM


Re: Be Happy with who you ARE!
crashfrog writes:
Right, it's a foreskin - a useful and extremely nerve-rich portion of the penis, the loss of which is known to be blunting to sexual pleasure.
A foreskin to a circumcised infant is like a handgun to a Canadian: if you've never had one, you don't miss it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by crashfrog, posted 06-29-2012 2:25 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by xongsmith, posted 06-29-2012 3:05 PM ringo has replied
 Message 95 by crashfrog, posted 06-29-2012 4:58 PM ringo has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 41 of 410 (666704)
06-29-2012 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by xongsmith
06-29-2012 2:42 PM


To me it is a barbaric practice, not at all on the scale of female genital mutilation, but still a crude barbaric practice done only to keep the particular religious leaders in power happy.....
Really? That's why people circumcise their kids? To keep the religious leaders in power happy?
You have spoken to every parent who ever circumcised their child...
And this is what you have found to be true?
Really?
What I could say is that the companies that make lubricants (K-Y anyone?) probably sell a lot more to the snipped than the unsnipped.
Obviouslymore Americans are circumcised than not.
But the need for lubricant has nothing to do with whether there is a foreskin or not.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by xongsmith, posted 06-29-2012 2:42 PM xongsmith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by xongsmith, posted 06-29-2012 3:12 PM Jon has replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 4206 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


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Message 42 of 410 (666705)
06-29-2012 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Jon
06-29-2012 2:08 PM


Re: Should be outlawed
More playing with words. Most people I know understand branding to be what ranchers do to their cattle, involving hot iron to leave permanent scarring.
If there is anyone who legitimatly didn't understand what I meant then I am sorry.
Giving a twin a tattoo for the purposes of identification is not the same thing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Jon, posted 06-29-2012 2:08 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
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Jon
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 43 of 410 (666706)
06-29-2012 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Jazzns
06-29-2012 2:54 PM


Re: Should be outlawed
More playing with words. Most people I know understand branding to be what ranchers do to their cattle, involving hot iron to leave permanent scarring.
My apologies. I thought you were speaking in a general sense of permanently marking a child for purposes of identification.
Intentionally burning children is considered a no-no in this locale.
Jon

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Jazzns, posted 06-29-2012 2:54 PM Jazzns has not replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 4206 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


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Message 44 of 410 (666707)
06-29-2012 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Jon
06-29-2012 2:05 PM


Re: Should be outlawed
Circumcision doesn't even come close to meeting the basic criteria for being classified as 'mutilation'.
And what of the few who HAVE had impaired use, disability, or destruction, or even death as a result?
Is it mutilation in that circumstance?
An argument may also be made that every circed male has impared use. The parts that are cut off have function. Just because we can get around that loss of function with modernity does not mean that it is not a loss.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Jon, posted 06-29-2012 2:05 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by ringo, posted 06-29-2012 3:08 PM Jazzns has replied
 Message 65 by Jon, posted 06-29-2012 3:52 PM Jazzns has replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 4206 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


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Message 45 of 410 (666709)
06-29-2012 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Jon
06-29-2012 2:13 PM


Re: Should be outlawed
Do you really think the only reason people have their children/get circumcised is out of 'a brutish old age superstition about making a war god happy'?
Yea. Or a cultural infestation rooted in exactly that.
There certainly is not practical or medical reason to do it.
To be fair, I could also add that some people may do it out of ignorance, believing that it is a cleanliness issue as is the popular myth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Jon, posted 06-29-2012 2:13 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-29-2012 3:12 PM Jazzns has replied
 Message 62 by Jon, posted 06-29-2012 3:45 PM Jazzns has replied

  
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