Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 63 (9072 total)
81 online now:
PaulK, Percy (Admin), Tangle (3 members, 78 visitors)
Newest Member: FossilDiscovery
Post Volume: Total: 893,122 Year: 4,234/6,534 Month: 448/900 Week: 154/150 Day: 0/8 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Obama will not win a second term
RAZD
Member (Idle past 637 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 241 of 311 (670328)
08-12-2012 7:59 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by Dr Adequate
08-12-2012 7:15 PM


Use the Electoral College to improve things
Hi Dr Adequate,

... all that's required is that a bunch of states which between them have a majority of the electoral college should sign a binding agreement that they'll give their electoral college delegates to whoever actually wins the election. ...

And go from one extreme to the other disregarding how their state votes?

To me the EC is a great opportunity to delay announcing results in each state -- in case there needs to be a revote, to count all the absentee votes, and to allow western states to feel they have something to vote for -- by having the state results report state by state at the EC, with big media circus etc etc

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .

Edited by RAZD, : ..

Edited by RAZD, : ...


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-12-2012 7:15 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 242 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-12-2012 8:06 PM RAZD has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 242 of 311 (670329)
08-12-2012 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 241 by RAZD
08-12-2012 7:59 PM


Re: Use the Electoral College to improve things
And go from one extreme to the other disregarding how their state votes?

Well, if you'd like the winner of the popular vote to win, that's how to do it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by RAZD, posted 08-12-2012 7:59 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 248 by RAZD, posted 08-13-2012 5:44 AM Dr Adequate has taken no action

  
Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 327 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 243 of 311 (670332)
08-12-2012 9:29 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by Percy
08-12-2012 1:34 PM


Re: Negative Ads
If I removed myself from the voters list I couldn't vote in any election.

I meant to get your name crossed off of the list of people who voted so that you are not counted as an apathetic non-voter. Destroy your ballot I guess.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by Percy, posted 08-12-2012 1:34 PM Percy has seen this message

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 244 of 311 (670334)
08-12-2012 9:33 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by Dr Adequate
08-12-2012 11:02 AM


Re: Negative Ads
foreveryoung writes:

There is nothing lying about that ad. Everyone who isn't brainwashed knows obama believes exactly that....people who are successful did not achieve that success on their own merits.

Dr. Adequate writes:

You are not so stupid that you don't know what he meant.

There is another possible meaning of fy's statement. The Republican ad is a distortion of what Obama actually said, but that distortion would not be a lie if Obama actually believes something similar to that distortion. It also would not be a lie, strictly speaking, if the person behind the ad believed the distortion.

In other words, it isn't a lie if you actually believe it.

For good or ill, some people believe all kinds of things about Obama regardless of what he actually says and does and despite all evidence to the contrary. I have no doubt that Buzsaw believes everything he says about Obama, no matter how ridiculous.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison


This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-12-2012 11:02 AM Dr Adequate has taken no action

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 245 of 311 (670336)
08-12-2012 10:55 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by Dr Adequate
08-12-2012 7:15 PM


Re: Negative Ads
It's not improbable that Obama will win the electoral college vote but lose the popular vote, in which case look out for a lot of red states signing up for this.

What would be the enforcement mechanism for such an agreement? I am trying to imagine all of the red states following the agreement when a cross-dressing, liberal, socialist, candidate wins the popular vote.

I find it difficult to imagine a court enforcing the agreement. Presently, there is no clear constitutional mandate for the electors to even follow their states orders on how to vote.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison


This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-12-2012 7:15 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-13-2012 1:44 AM NoNukes has replied
 Message 249 by RAZD, posted 08-13-2012 5:53 AM NoNukes has seen this message

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 246 of 311 (670339)
08-13-2012 1:44 AM
Reply to: Message 245 by NoNukes
08-12-2012 10:55 PM


Electoral College Reform
It's possible for states to sign legally binding treaties with one another. What exactly would happen if one of them reneged on such a treaty I don't know, but I do know that they can do it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by NoNukes, posted 08-12-2012 10:55 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 258 by NoNukes, posted 08-13-2012 2:18 PM Dr Adequate has taken no action

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 247 of 311 (670347)
08-13-2012 5:08 AM


Gotta Be Woeful Ignorance.
What amazes me is how a board of such intelligent sheeple can remain in such utter ignorance of the despot that they are supporting.

It's like if they were Jews in Germany and could easily know that they were supporting the own demise and all of the blessings whcih they have in the most blessed nation in history.

No wonder they can besieve in such wild magic as the BB an evolution.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

Someone wisely said something ;ike, "Before fooling with a fool, make sure the fool is a fool." :)


Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by Coragyps, posted 08-13-2012 9:00 AM Buzsaw has taken no action
 Message 251 by crashfrog, posted 08-13-2012 9:01 AM Buzsaw has taken no action
 Message 252 by vimesey, posted 08-13-2012 9:42 AM Buzsaw has taken no action
 Message 253 by jar, posted 08-13-2012 10:26 AM Buzsaw has taken no action
 Message 254 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-13-2012 11:08 AM Buzsaw has taken no action
 Message 257 by ringo, posted 08-13-2012 1:51 PM Buzsaw has taken no action
 Message 259 by NoNukes, posted 08-13-2012 2:22 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 260 by onifre, posted 08-13-2012 5:06 PM Buzsaw has seen this message
 Message 263 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-13-2012 8:27 PM Buzsaw has taken no action

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 637 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 248 of 311 (670348)
08-13-2012 5:44 AM
Reply to: Message 242 by Dr Adequate
08-12-2012 8:06 PM


Re: Use the Electoral College to improve things
Hi Dr Adequate,

Well, if you'd like the winner of the popular vote to win, that's how to do it.

no it's A way to do it, which is rather extreme imho. It could end up with a red state voting blue or vice versa.

I would prefer representational division of the EC votes.

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 242 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-12-2012 8:06 PM Dr Adequate has taken no action

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 637 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 249 of 311 (670349)
08-13-2012 5:53 AM
Reply to: Message 245 by NoNukes
08-12-2012 10:55 PM


Re: Negative Ads
Hi NoNukes

... Presently, there is no clear constitutional mandate for the electors to even follow their states orders on how to vote.

Correct and that is the way it was envisaged by the founding fathers, before the development of parties.

Remember that originally the person with the most EC votes became president and the person with the next most votes became vice president. There were no primaries, so there could be several candidates on the ballots, not all of them listed in every state. The founding fathers envisaged an EC that made a decision in more of a parliamentarian fashion.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by NoNukes, posted 08-12-2012 10:55 PM NoNukes has seen this message

  
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


(1)
Message 250 of 311 (670352)
08-13-2012 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 247 by Buzsaw
08-13-2012 5:08 AM


Re: Gotta Be Woeful Ignorance.
What amazes me is how a board of such intelligent sheeple can remain in such utter ignorance of the despot that they are supporting.

Evidence, please, you silly old geezer! Like, say, examples of despotism that distinguish Obama from Bush. (Melanin content of epidermis is not a valid example.)

When did jackbooted thugs come confiscate your guns, Buz? When did your Federal taxes go up? When did the New Mooslim Atheist Gubmint force one of your granddaughters to start taking birth control pills?

In short, what the hell are you talking about???


This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by Buzsaw, posted 08-13-2012 5:08 AM Buzsaw has taken no action

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 699 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


(3)
Message 251 of 311 (670353)
08-13-2012 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 247 by Buzsaw
08-13-2012 5:08 AM


Re: Gotta Be Woeful Ignorance.
What amazes me is how a board of such intelligent sheeple can remain in such utter ignorance of the despot that they are supporting.

Buz, your examples of "despotism" never seem to hold up to inspection, so what are we supposed to be "ignorant" about? Obama had Seal Team Six killed? That never happened. Czars? "Czar" is just a media term for a kind of executive branch advisor, usually one subject to Senate approval, and at any rate Obama has less of them than the last guy - as though the number of advisors a President had was a measure of "despotism."

The truth is, you call Obama a Kenyan Muslim usurper with a fake birth certificate for no reason besides the fact that you're a Republican and he's a Democrat, and those are the worst things you can think of to say about him. It's like the way you think the Clintons had Vince Foster killed. But the fact that you'll wholeheartedly endorse the most outlandish, fairy-story conspiracy theories provided the subject is a prominent Democrat and you're hearing the theory from a Republican is just another example of your intellectual inability to assess an argument independently of your opinion of who is making it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by Buzsaw, posted 08-13-2012 5:08 AM Buzsaw has taken no action

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1306
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


(11)
Message 252 of 311 (670355)
08-13-2012 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 247 by Buzsaw
08-13-2012 5:08 AM


Re: Gotta Be Woeful Ignorance.
What amazes me is how a board of such intelligent sheeple can remain in such utter ignorance of the despot that they are supporting.

Buz, please have a visit to the Amnesty International website here: http://amnesty.org.uk/

It's a charity which, amongst other things, stands up for the rights of people who are the victims of genuinely despotic regimes around the world. The details are harrowing. (Type in "broken bottle" in the search engine on the library page, for a starter).

Please bear in mind that characterising the duly elected leader of a democracy as a despot not only gives your views the appearance of being ridiculous - it is insulting to the thousands of victims of actual despotism around the world.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by Buzsaw, posted 08-13-2012 5:08 AM Buzsaw has taken no action

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33890
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 253 of 311 (670359)
08-13-2012 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 247 by Buzsaw
08-13-2012 5:08 AM


Re: Gotta Be Woeful *********.
If that is true then I imagine that you can provide the evidence that supports your assertion.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by Buzsaw, posted 08-13-2012 5:08 AM Buzsaw has taken no action

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 254 of 311 (670362)
08-13-2012 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 247 by Buzsaw
08-13-2012 5:08 AM


Re: Gotta Be Woeful Ignorance.
What amazes me is how a board of such intelligent sheeple can remain in such utter ignorance of the despot that they are supporting.

You find it amazing that intelligent people disagree with you? I'd have thought you'd be used to it by now.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by Buzsaw, posted 08-13-2012 5:08 AM Buzsaw has taken no action

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 5971
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


(2)
Message 255 of 311 (670363)
08-13-2012 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by nwr
07-13-2012 7:56 PM


A clear choice
In an earlier post, I wrote:

There's a good chance that Romney's campaign will implode before November.

I think we are now seeing the beginnings of this implosion.

With Romney's selection of Ryan, we now see a stark contrast between two very different visions for America.

One vision is that of an America that is for an elite super-rich tiny minority.

The other vision of an America of the 99%, an America where all men were created equal.

I know which of those visions that I support.

Edited by nwr, : provide a subtitle


Jesus was a liberal hippie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by nwr, posted 07-13-2012 7:56 PM nwr has seen this message

Replies to this message:
 Message 256 by Taq, posted 08-13-2012 1:20 PM nwr has seen this message

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.1
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2022