Original Sin - Scripture and Reason

In Message 23, you wrote:

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I don't think it's possible to rise above the selfishness that our genes have given us. I think at best, we can delude ourselves that we are overcoming our selfishness. In the end, when we ask ourselves, Cui bono?, we'll find that there is some selfish entity that is benefiting. Whether its a selfish individual, a selfish gene or a selfish meme.

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jar said that wasn't true and neither of you are proving your case.I think people are capable of doing things for totally irrational reasons that include not stemming from the selfishness of genes.

But your quote seems to say otherwise:

quote:

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I don't think it's possible to rise above the selfishness that our genes have given us.

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And: 'In the end we'll find that there is some selfish entity that is benefiting.'I don't think either of those statements are true.

To me, Mod didn't seem to be saying this: It looked like he was saying this instead:Mod -> It is impossible for someone to have a noble conscious motivation without also having a bad unconscious motivation.I don't think that's true but his further explanation only confused me and made less sense.

I don't see why there couldn't be entities that don't act in their own self interets but make cooperative behavior possible. Too, people can do cooperative things for totally retarded reasons that don't stem from anything that make any sense at all. Or, they could do something cooperative for no reason at all. I don't think its true that cooperative behaviour is made possible only by entities that are acting in their own self interests. See, I was seeing you as saying that your unconscious 'psychological drives' may have to be selfish.Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.

I don't think jar pushing a cart back to the store needs to be explaned on those terms. He very well could have done it without anything acting in its own self interest.