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Author Topic:   Religious Right and Evangelicals
macaroniandcheese 
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Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 16 of 50 (336632)
07-30-2006 1:23 PM


Evangelical Pastor Boyd disowns religious political activism
sroty quoted below
MAPLEWOOD, Minn. ” Like most pastors who lead thriving evangelical megachurches, the Rev. Gregory A. Boyd was asked frequently to give his blessing ” and the church’s ” to conservative political candidates and causes.
The Rev. Gregory A. Boyd leads a congregation outside St. Paul.
The requests came from church members and visitors alike: Would he please announce a rally against gay marriage during services? Would he introduce a politician from the pulpit? Could members set up a table in the lobby promoting their anti-abortion work? Would the church distribute “voters’ guides” that all but endorsed Republican candidates? And with the country at war, please couldn’t the church hang an American flag in the sanctuary?
After refusing each time, Mr. Boyd finally became fed up, he said. Before the last presidential election, he preached six sermons called “The Cross and the Sword” in which he said the church should steer clear of politics, give up moralizing on sexual issues, stop claiming the United States as a “Christian nation” and stop glorifying American military campaigns.
“When the church wins the culture wars, it inevitably loses,” Mr. Boyd preached. “When it conquers the world, it becomes the world. When you put your trust in the sword, you lose the cross.”
Mr. Boyd says he is no liberal. He is opposed to abortion and thinks homosexuality is not God’s ideal. The response from his congregation at Woodland Hills Church here in suburban St. Paul ” packed mostly with politically and theologically conservative, middle-class evangelicals ” was passionate. Some members walked out of a sermon and never returned. By the time the dust had settled, Woodland Hills, which Mr. Boyd founded in 1992, had lost about 1,000 of its 5,000 members.
.....
Mr. Boyd said he never intended his sermons to be taken as merely a critique of the Republican Party or the religious right. He refuses to share his party affiliation, or whether he has one, for that reason. He said there were Christians on both the left and the right who had turned politics and patriotism into “idolatry.”
He said he first became alarmed while visiting another megachurch’s worship service on a Fourth of July years ago. The service finished with the chorus singing “God Bless America” and a video of fighter jets flying over a hill silhouetted with crosses.
“I thought to myself, ”What just happened? Fighter jets mixed up with the cross?’ ” he said in an interview.
Patriotic displays are still a mainstay in some evangelical churches. Across town from Mr. Boyd’s church, the sanctuary of North Heights Lutheran Church was draped in bunting on the Sunday before the Fourth of July this year for a “freedom celebration.” Military veterans and flag twirlers paraded into the sanctuary, an enormous American flag rose slowly behind the stage, and a Marine major who had served in Afghanistan preached that the military was spending “your hard-earned money” on good causes.
In his six sermons, Mr. Boyd laid out a broad argument that the role of Christians was not to seek “power over” others ” by controlling governments, passing legislation or fighting wars. Christians should instead seek to have “power under” others ” “winning people’s hearts” by sacrificing for those in need, as Jesus did, Mr. Boyd said.
“America wasn’t founded as a theocracy,” he said. “America was founded by people trying to escape theocracies. Never in history have we had a Christian theocracy where it wasn’t bloody and barbaric. That’s why our Constitution wisely put in a separation of church and state.
“I am sorry to tell you,” he continued, “that America is not the light of the world and the hope of the world. The light of the world and the hope of the world is Jesus Christ.”
Mr. Boyd lambasted the “hypocrisy and pettiness” of Christians who focus on “sexual issues” like homosexuality, abortion or Janet Jackson’s breast-revealing performance at the Super Bowl halftime show. He said Christians these days were constantly outraged about sex and perceived violations of their rights to display their faith in public.
“Those are the two buttons to push if you want to get Christians to act,” he said. “And those are the two buttons Jesus never pushed.”
there's more to the story, i just quoted the important bits.
jesus is supposed to be the lord of our hearts, not the lord of our nation. i want to read his books.
Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.
Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
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 Message 18 by randman, posted 07-30-2006 5:09 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 17 of 50 (336680)
07-30-2006 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by macaroniandcheese
07-30-2006 1:23 PM


Re: Evangelical Pastor Boyd disowns religious political activism
I have read some of Greg Boyds stuff. Its rather good.

This message is a reply to:
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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4920 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 18 of 50 (336687)
07-30-2006 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by macaroniandcheese
07-30-2006 1:23 PM


Re: Evangelical Pastor Boyd disowns religious political activism
Well, good for him. Turning the pulpit into a political tool is not what it is all about.
That doesn't mean in a participatory republic that we should be silent however, but keeping the ministry out of a politial spirit is necessary.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by macaroniandcheese, posted 07-30-2006 1:23 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4920 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 19 of 50 (336689)
07-30-2006 5:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by macaroniandcheese
07-22-2006 6:34 PM


Re: inconsistency and false gospel?
Actually, I just commended this guy before reading these comments. I find them to be suspect. I don't know about what he means by "evangelicals" but certainly a great many Bible-beleivers have always oppossed abortion. I don't think most Pentecostals and conservative Baptists ever favored it, and so I find his criticism odd.
I mean it's fine to say that throwing off meekness for trying to be right all the time is a real problem, but I don't get the abortion comments at all.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4920 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 20 of 50 (336692)
07-30-2006 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by macaroniandcheese
07-23-2006 10:34 PM


Re: inconsistency and false gospel?
we decided it must be because the hicks are too stupid to see any differences while racists are smart enough to see differences but not smart enough to know that that doesn't make black people not people.
What do you mean by "differences"? Surely you do not mean that people cannot see the cultural differences between white and black Americans.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by macaroniandcheese, posted 07-23-2006 10:34 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by macaroniandcheese, posted 07-30-2006 5:37 PM randman has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3949 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 21 of 50 (336701)
07-30-2006 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by randman
07-30-2006 5:21 PM


Re: inconsistency and false gospel?
that was exactly what i was referring to. but much more so the physical differences.
if you haven't met a hick, you wouldn't understand.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by randman, posted 07-30-2006 5:48 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4920 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 22 of 50 (336706)
07-30-2006 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by macaroniandcheese
07-30-2006 5:37 PM


Re: inconsistency and false gospel?
People aren't THAT dumb, brenna.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by macaroniandcheese, posted 07-30-2006 5:37 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3949 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 23 of 50 (336713)
07-30-2006 6:08 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by randman
07-30-2006 5:12 PM


Re: inconsistency and false gospel?
then maybe you should do some research about the history of abortion. i always knew that the church originally supported the legalization. the secret is not to read only things produced by the christian coalition about it.
the truth is that abortion was legalized in order to regulate it because before it was legalized, women were being murdered by the thousands by doctors who provided a necessary service with bad procedures and dirty instruments. did you ever see dirty dancing? picture that on a nationwide level. it's not because a bunch of bloodthirsty liberals were sitting in a smoky room trying to figure out how they could get away with murdering millions of babies. it was a bunch of people trying to protect women's health. that's why the church supported it, because they knew it was wrong to allow this to harm so many women. unlike you may think, surgical abortion and other forms of abortive birth control have been going on for as long as women have had uteri. it is a (usually) safe and normal way to control your use of resources when you are in times of scarcity or trouble. babies take lots of resources. if you haven't got any, it's stupid to have a baby. and of course, unlike you, i don't find any difference in responsibility between having an abortion, wearing a condom, or abstaining... only difference of risk. taking risks is not irresponsible. taking risks you can't afford is irresponsible... like having a baby when you're poor because you don't want "killing it" on your conscience. raising a child in scarcity has been demonstrated to cause disease both in youth and adulthood (see links below).
bringing life into the world when you can't care for it is the most irresponsible thing you can do.
BBC NEWS | Health | Diet 'affects arteries of foetus'
crap. i was gonna have more, but i lost the links to the stories i read just last night about people being bigger, stronger, and healthier than their grandparents and disease in midlife being reduced by a healthy childhood.
oh well.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by randman, posted 07-30-2006 6:14 PM macaroniandcheese has replied
 Message 26 by randman, posted 07-30-2006 6:17 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3949 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 24 of 50 (336714)
07-30-2006 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by randman
07-30-2006 5:09 PM


Re: Evangelical Pastor Boyd disowns religious political activism
i don't think you should be silent either, but you shouldn't be intent on denying rights that those without your particular ball and chain deserve.

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randman 
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Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 25 of 50 (336716)
07-30-2006 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by macaroniandcheese
07-30-2006 6:08 PM


Re: inconsistency and false gospel?
i always knew that the church originally supported the legalization.
What church?
The Catholic church?
How about the Holiness churches?
Apostolic churches?
the SBC?
the Assemblies of God?
the Mennonites?
the Quakers?
the Mormons? do they count?
the Moravians?
Pentecostal Holiness?
Free Will Baptists?
the Reformed denominations?
the Charismatics?
all the independent Pentecostals?
how about Charismatic Episcopalians?
the various Lutherans?
the different Presbyterians?
the Orthodox churches?
Methodists?
etc, etc,.....
Edited by randman, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by macaroniandcheese, posted 07-30-2006 6:08 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4920 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 26 of 50 (336717)
07-30-2006 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by macaroniandcheese
07-30-2006 6:08 PM


Re: inconsistency and false gospel?
the truth is that abortion was legalized in order to regulate it because before it was legalized, women were being murdered by the thousands by doctors who provided a necessary service with bad procedures and dirty instruments.
Bogus. The truth is more women die today from botched legal abortions per year than ever did from illegal abortions (one reason is there are so many more abortions).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by macaroniandcheese, posted 07-30-2006 6:08 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 28 by macaroniandcheese, posted 07-30-2006 7:06 PM randman has not replied

  
lfen
Member (Idle past 4698 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 27 of 50 (336724)
07-30-2006 6:53 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by randman
07-30-2006 6:17 PM


Re: inconsistency and false gospel?
The truth is more women die today from botched legal abortions per year than ever did from illegal abortions (one reason is there are so many more abortions).
Very interesting assertion. But without figures and sources that's all it is. What prevents you from citing your assertions?
lfen
Edited by lfen, : no edit misclicked

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3949 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 28 of 50 (336727)
07-30-2006 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by randman
07-30-2006 6:17 PM


Re: inconsistency and false gospel?
give me proof.
sorry, but that reaks of bullshit.
Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3949 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 29 of 50 (336728)
07-30-2006 7:07 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by randman
07-30-2006 6:14 PM


Re: inconsistency and false gospel?
the church as a solid unit of social change. you know, the one that wrongly claims to have been so supportive of the civil rights movement.

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 Message 31 by randman, posted 07-30-2006 8:31 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3949 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 30 of 50 (336729)
07-30-2006 7:10 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by randman
07-30-2006 5:48 PM


Re: inconsistency and false gospel?
some people are, and until you've lived with people like that, you wouldn't understand.
btw. i don't see the physical differences of people generally. i don't tend to look at people's faces and i almost never remember such things. and of course i think that most "cultural differences" in this country are fabricated by the media. every black person i ever knew was exactly the same as me. it doesn't take stupidity always. sometimes it simply takes a different way of looking at the world. to some it is actions and not appearance or history that is important.
Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.

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