The Second Amendment

Do you honestly believe that the reason that the US isn't being converted into a totalitarian regime as we write is because Joe and his buddies have access to rifles and suchlike and that the government is just too scared of these gun wielding protectors of freedom to do what it really wants to do?Do you really think that those countries where we don't have the same attitude to guns are in some terrible danger of sleepwalking into such a regime because we, the citizenry, aren't armed enough to stop the government doing that?This whole idea that the populace needs guns to stop the government forcibly taking over is bizzarre......The government (or more accurately those who effectively own the politicians) have far more effective and profitable methods of getting the populace to give them what they want anyway.Frankly if democracy is ever forcibly eliminated in the US it won't be by the government. It will be eliminated by a a mass of gun nuts who decide that the elected government isn't white, homophobic or right wing enough for their tastes......It is the gun nuts that you guys need to protect democracy from!!! Not the other way round.

If the government is despotic, whether it follows a non-despotic disarming government or not, what is going to stop it’s despotism? How exactly does arming Joe and his buddies help prevent the despotic government in question in your view? Do you think we in the UK are more at risk from despotic governments than you because we aren’t all armed? Neither you or I are going to change the 2nd amendment. But we can evidentially debate whether the existing interpretation of the 2nd amendment really has any rational basis or whether it is just a cultural hangover of some sort that doesn’t make sense but is just a fact of life.In the UK we have all sorts of antiquated laws regarding hanging people for herding sheep across London bridge and suchlike That these exist as laws isn’t in and of itself the be-all-and-end-all of whether these laws represent a justifiable position or not.Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

Well you are the one who has made the idiotic link between the right to bear arms and the ability to take on a superpower modern military. Message 263I still don’t know what level of armament you think the US military should have and whether or not you think the US citizenry should match that. Could you enlighten me on this specific point? What exact purpose do you think the citizenry possessing lots of guns achieves? Is democracy in the US most at risk from:1) Economic disparity and the concentration of power that comes with concentration of wealth
2) Those with extreme political views who don’t consider the elected government American enough to be legitimate and who think that forcibly overthrowing said elected government is a legitimate way forwards
3) The government fostering an ever greater climate of fear in which civil liberties are ever diminished in the name of national security (whilst the most right wing of gun advocates avidly cheer them on)
4) The government deciding to forcibly impose it’s military might on the populaceFrankly 4) seems like a rather distant possibility compared to the others. Am I wrong in thinking that there is a common cause and support between such organisations as the NRA, the Tea Party movement and the religious right in America? I can dig out the known links between these organisations in terms of funding and suchlike if you want — But are you actually denying that there is any link? Why Americans think that the question of whether or not prolific gun ownership in society is one that can only be debated as if Americans are somehow unique and evidentially isolated from the experience of the rest of the world baffles me.It’s a debate board. Nothing you or I say here will change the second amendment. But that doesn’t remotely stop either of us considering whether or not modern interpretations of the 2nd amendment makes any actual sense in the modern world.

Blimey. That’s a blast from the past. But yeah. The Tea Party lot as it was then or the MAGA mob mob as it is now - These are the dangerous misguided zealots who, righteous in their perverted patriotism as they are, would be most likely to take the US from democracy to despotism. Fortunately the US does seem to have survived the test of Trump with democracy intact. But it’s a reminder to us all of how these things can occur.