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Author Topic:   Human Rights
tudwell
Member (Idle past 6000 days)
Posts: 172
From: KCMO
Joined: 08-20-2006


Message 44 of 303 (367074)
11-30-2006 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by riVeRraT
11-29-2006 1:26 PM


Many people (I'd venture to say all people) do things in their lives which bring about unwanted consequences. Someone who smokes cigarettes obviously doesn't do it to get lung cancer, but that is a very real possibility. Someone eating chili may end up with a bad case of heart burn. I would be interested to talk to someone who denied that person their right to take pepto-bismal to relieve their heart burn. Or for the cigarette smoker to seek treatment for their lung cancer. Both of these situations were brought about by direct actions of the individuals, and you (I hope) allow them to get rid of any unwanted consequences they may have received.
My question, then, is: Why is sex any different? If someone gets an STD I would certainly hope you would allow them to rid themselves of this unwanted result. Pregnancy (to some) is just another unwanted consequence of sex. And I believe they have the right to fix it.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-30-2006 11:35 AM tudwell has replied

tudwell
Member (Idle past 6000 days)
Posts: 172
From: KCMO
Joined: 08-20-2006


Message 47 of 303 (367086)
11-30-2006 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by New Cat's Eye
11-30-2006 11:35 AM


Assuming the unborn child is a person, wouldn't 'fixing it' be infringing upon the unborn person's rights?
Does an unborn child have any rights?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-30-2006 11:35 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-30-2006 12:05 PM tudwell has replied

tudwell
Member (Idle past 6000 days)
Posts: 172
From: KCMO
Joined: 08-20-2006


Message 50 of 303 (367095)
11-30-2006 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by New Cat's Eye
11-30-2006 12:05 PM


Assuming that it is a person and that people have rights, yes.
That's an awful lot of assuming and I don't feel comfortable dealing in what-if scenarios.
OBVIOUSLY unborn children currently do not have the right (in the U.S.) to stay in a uterus against one's (the mother's) will.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-30-2006 12:05 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

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 Message 52 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-30-2006 12:31 PM tudwell has not replied

tudwell
Member (Idle past 6000 days)
Posts: 172
From: KCMO
Joined: 08-20-2006


Message 134 of 303 (367598)
12-03-2006 9:15 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by riVeRraT
12-03-2006 7:55 AM


Re: Manmade Right
Is it a right because it is legal, or is it legal because it is a right?
Neither. It's a legal right because people want it to be a legal right. We live in a democracy, and if enough people want something, they can get it. They wanted the right to an abortion, so they got it.
If, however, you're looking for what makes abortion a moral right, it's a little tougher.
If you adhere to absolute morals which dictate abortion is wrong, then it is wrong, and nothing anyone says can change that.
If you adhere to absolute morals which dictate that abortion is okay, then it is okay, and nothing anyone says can change that.
If you adhere to relative morality, it all depends on the time and place in which you are living. In the here and now (US in early 21st century) abortion is legal. It is a legal right, and the people who made it so believed it was a moral right also (indeed, made it so because it is a moral right). So, relative morality tells us that abortion can be a moral right, and is a moral right (in the here and now).
I guess it all comes down to who or what dictates your morals as to whether or not it is a moral right.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by riVeRraT, posted 12-03-2006 7:55 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by riVeRraT, posted 12-04-2006 10:59 AM tudwell has replied

tudwell
Member (Idle past 6000 days)
Posts: 172
From: KCMO
Joined: 08-20-2006


Message 144 of 303 (367699)
12-04-2006 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by riVeRraT
12-04-2006 10:59 AM


Re: Manmade Right
I guess there are three different kind of rights we've brought up in this thread.
1 legal right
2 Natural right
3 moral right
Obviously, abortion is a legal right. And you seem to agree that, depending on your religion/philosophy, abortion may or may not be a moral right. So that leaves 'natural right'. First, I'd like to ask just what you mean by 'natural right'. Are you referring to some 'inalienable right' similar to the kind established in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by riVeRraT, posted 12-04-2006 10:59 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by riVeRraT, posted 12-04-2006 4:37 PM tudwell has replied

tudwell
Member (Idle past 6000 days)
Posts: 172
From: KCMO
Joined: 08-20-2006


Message 147 of 303 (367715)
12-04-2006 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by riVeRraT
12-04-2006 4:37 PM


Re: Manmade Right
Ah, yes, you're correct. Thanks for clearing that up.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by riVeRraT, posted 12-04-2006 4:37 PM riVeRraT has not replied

tudwell
Member (Idle past 6000 days)
Posts: 172
From: KCMO
Joined: 08-20-2006


Message 151 of 303 (367747)
12-04-2006 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by riVeRraT
12-04-2006 4:37 PM


In Contrast to My Last Post
Actually, that didn't clear much up. I'm still wondering what 'natural rights' are *AND* I'm still wondering just what kind of right you are expecting people to provide. You admit we have legal rights to abortion. You accept that some people may have a moral right to abortion. You don't seem to fully understand PD's 'natural right'. What kind of right are we debating?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by riVeRraT, posted 12-04-2006 4:37 PM riVeRraT has not replied

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