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Author Topic:   What type of biological life will more than likely be found on other planets?
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 178 (670491)
08-15-2012 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Lithodid-Man
08-15-2012 1:21 PM


Re: Biochemistry
I say this based on a few assumptions. One being that that Earth is 'ordinary'. That is, the early history of a planet in the ballpark of Earth's size and position around any remotely similar star will be more similar than dissimilar to our own history. If this is correct then it is not a complete leap to assume that at some stage in that planet's development abiotic carbohydrates and other critical components of terrestrial biochemistry (such as adenine) were abundant.

Is Venus similar enough in size and location to Earth in order to make this argument questionable? Venus is not much like earth.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison


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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 178 (670501)
08-15-2012 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by onifre
08-15-2012 8:24 PM


For the sake of "drawing a line" lets call intelligence the ability to create art, music, do science, create mathematical equations and have complex communication.

How few of those things can dolphins do? How many of those things can you do?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by onifre, posted 08-15-2012 8:24 PM onifre has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by onifre, posted 08-15-2012 9:40 PM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 178 (670557)
08-16-2012 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by onifre
08-15-2012 9:40 PM


None of those things. I'm just making an arbitrary line in the sand, where this is intelligent and "that" is not. It is specifically to separate us from every other animal.

Are you quite sure that dolphins do not create music or have complex communications? I am not. Those things do not require hands as some have suggested,

If you are going to define intelligence as separating us from every other animal (and plants too I'm sure) then you would seem to be using a rather biased screen to identify intelligent life on other planets as well.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

“Choose silence of all virtues, for by it you hear other men's imperfections, and conceal your own.” George Bernard Shaw


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by onifre, posted 08-15-2012 9:40 PM onifre has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by onifre, posted 08-16-2012 12:10 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 178 (670561)
08-16-2012 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by onifre
08-15-2012 9:48 PM


From what I've seen and read, it seems like getting past the blob stage requires a group effort of surrounding celestial bodies and rock stuff (not the technical term).

I don't think getting past the blob stage requires other planets, but becoming able to support life might well require some well placed giant planets forming along with the smaller rocky ones.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

“Choose silence of all virtues, for by it you hear other men's imperfections, and conceal your own.” George Bernard Shaw


This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by onifre, posted 08-15-2012 9:48 PM onifre has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 178 (670562)
08-16-2012 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by jar
08-16-2012 9:52 AM


Re: Are those measures of intelligence or technology?
Those are pretty specific things. We may consider bird songs as pretty but are they "music"? We may consider the bower birds display pretty but is it "art"? Are there any examples on earth of any other critter doing science, creating mathematical equations or having complex communication capabilities?

I'm not sure what is and is not "art", but even if bird songs are not music, and I accept that they are not, it is not clear to me that dolphins and other whales cannot and do not create music. No technical aids are needed to do those things. Similarly, math and complex communications do not require hands. Only writing those things down requires thumbs and technical aids. Science can be done using observing and reasoning. Beakers and microscopes are not required to observe experiments.

What if we found a human like species on a distant planet that had no music or had no artists? Would we consider them unintelligent if they had all of the other characteristics? I think that would be a ridiculous way to proceed.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

“Choose silence of all virtues, for by it you hear other men's imperfections, and conceal your own.” George Bernard Shaw


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by jar, posted 08-16-2012 9:52 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by jar, posted 08-16-2012 10:20 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 40 of 178 (670609)
08-16-2012 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by onifre
08-16-2012 12:02 PM


Re: Are those measures of intelligence or technology?
and going off on a guitar like Hendrix?

Not that I am agreeing with jar on this, but no technology means no guitar, and certainly no electric guitar.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

“Choose silence of all virtues, for by it you hear other men's imperfections, and conceal your own.” George Bernard Shaw


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by onifre, posted 08-16-2012 12:02 PM onifre has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by onifre, posted 08-16-2012 2:01 PM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 46 of 178 (670684)
08-17-2012 9:32 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by onifre
08-16-2012 2:01 PM


Re: Are those measures of intelligence or technology?
We had the ability to make music before we came up with the instruments.

I understand that, but I am responding to your statement below [emphasis added by me]. Technology has everything to do with "going off on a guitar" like Jimi Hendrix.

onifre writes:

But I don't see what technology has to do with coming up with mathematical equations, having complex languague, making art as beautiful as Michael Angelo's works, and going off on a guitar like Hendrix?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

“Choose silence of all virtues, for by it you hear other men's imperfections, and conceal your own.” George Bernard Shaw


This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by onifre, posted 08-16-2012 2:01 PM onifre has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 63 of 178 (670770)
08-18-2012 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Dogmafood
08-18-2012 6:13 PM


Re: Hands are Handy
On the one side you have life springing up at every possible opportunity in every imaginable form. On the other, you have natural selection screening out the unsuited candidates. If intelligence is a beneficial characteristic (which I think is undeniable) then does it not stand to reason that organisms with more intelligence than their co-habitants will be more likely to survive?

An intelligent rat might have better chances for survival then an unintelligent one. But perhaps other strategies can give unintelligent rats and edge over intelligent humans. We may actually outnumber rats on earth, but their population is likely on the same order of magnitude as the human population.

And there might well be circumstances in which no degree of intelligence will enable survival, but some of those other strategies (like being able to forgo eating and drinking for a few days or months or being able to survive after flash freezing) will allow unintelligent animals to survive when any human would be long dead.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

“Choose silence of all virtues, for by it you hear other men's imperfections, and conceal your own.” George Bernard Shaw


This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Dogmafood, posted 08-18-2012 6:13 PM Dogmafood has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Dogmafood, posted 08-18-2012 8:16 PM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 69 of 178 (670776)
08-18-2012 11:10 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Dogmafood
08-18-2012 8:16 PM


Re: Accumulated Intelligence
Is there any species who's evolutionary history shows that they have become less intelligent over time?

How many species have changed intelligence at all over time? Have homo sapiens increased in intelligence?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

“Choose silence of all virtues, for by it you hear other men's imperfections, and conceal your own.” George Bernard Shaw


This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Dogmafood, posted 08-18-2012 8:16 PM Dogmafood has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Dogmafood, posted 08-19-2012 8:18 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
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