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Author Topic:   The Even More Awesome Presidential Election Thread
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 2336 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


(1)
Message 256 of 308 (673820)
09-23-2012 8:03 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by Coyote
09-23-2012 7:39 PM


Re: Time for a change...
Not a huge Obama fan myself. Nor a Romney fan. However what is wrong with being a community organizer? The civil rights movement was led by one of the most prominent 'community organizers', Martin Luther King, Jr. Your attempt to demonize being a community organizer falls flat.

As far as redistributionalist, every politician (and just about every American) is a redistributionalist to one degree or another, including Mitt Romney. Both Social Security and Medicare are redistribution systems. Earned Income Credit (enacted in 1975 and expanded on by the Republicans in Reagan's administration) and other tax incentives also are redistributive in one way or another. Yet, I don't hear Republicans and conservatives wanting to end either one. No, in fact, they are making claims that Obama and his democrats are undermining these very same redistributive programs with the new health program.

If you want to defend your position for supporting Romney I would suggest you go to another source beside the ridiculously ignorant Fox 'News' Network.

Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.


"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by Coyote, posted 09-23-2012 7:39 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by Coyote, posted 09-23-2012 8:27 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

  
Shield
Member (Idle past 2097 days)
Posts: 482
Joined: 01-29-2008


Message 257 of 308 (673821)
09-23-2012 8:03 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by Coyote
09-23-2012 7:39 PM


Re: Time for a change...
redistributionalist

Is that a 'thing' now?

The US goverment has always been 'redistributionalist'. Helping the poor, elderly, disabled etc. Creating infrastructure, schools, police, fire departments etc., thus creating the platform which enables individuals to succeed.

At the GOP National Convention, Paul Ryan (wrongfully) accused Obama of cutting huge amount of funds from Medicare, an obviously 'redistributionalist' institution, and used that as an argument AGAINST Obama. Wheres your rage?

If you want a really free market, where goverment dosent intervene in private business enterprises if you got the money, go to Somalia. I'd like to see you succeed there.

Edited by rbp, : No reason given.

Edited by rbp, : No reason given.

Edited by rbp, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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onifre
Member (Idle past 2186 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 258 of 308 (673822)
09-23-2012 8:04 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by Coyote
09-23-2012 7:39 PM


Re: Time for a change...
But one is proud of being a "community organizer" and a redistributionalist, while the other at least has some genuine accomplishments to his credit.

This puppet says one thing and this puppet says another thing. Who cares? It's all fake.

Coke claims to be better than Pepsi and vice versa, but when it comes down to it, they are both carbonated water with fructose that destroy your body. Does it really matter that you drink the one that you think tastes better?

- Oni

Edited by onifre, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 1341 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 259 of 308 (673825)
09-23-2012 8:27 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by DevilsAdvocate
09-23-2012 8:03 PM


Re: Time for a change...
If you want to defend your position for supporting Romney I would suggest you go to another source beside the ridiculously ignorant Fox 'News' Network.

I haven't watched Fox in a long time, and I haven't watched it regularly in about 10 years.

Just another thing you're wrong about, eh?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 09-23-2012 8:03 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 262 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 09-23-2012 8:38 PM Coyote has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 702 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


(2)
Message 260 of 308 (673826)
09-23-2012 8:36 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by Coyote
09-23-2012 7:39 PM


Re: Time for a change...
while the other at least has some genuine accomplishments to his credit.

Right, it's not like Obama's ever been President, or anything.

Oh, wait.


This message is a reply to:
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xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2207
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 261 of 308 (673827)
09-23-2012 8:38 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by Coyote
09-23-2012 7:39 PM


Re: Time for a change...
Coyote says:
It is the lesser of two evils, agreed.

But one is proud of being a "community organizer" and a redistributionalist, while the other at least has some genuine accomplishments to his credit.

Coyote - you don't see that the left side argues there's a whole lot more than being a very successful businessperson in life, when it comes to evaluating the best things that have occurred in your life - even if you happen to be an atheist. In fact, when it comes to assessing qualities for the President, business experience is a negative quality. In fact, something like "community organizer" is far more an indicator of good qualifications.

Originally I wanted to say something about the perils of pride, but that's different thread.


- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by Coyote, posted 09-23-2012 7:39 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
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DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 2336 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 262 of 308 (673828)
09-23-2012 8:38 PM
Reply to: Message 259 by Coyote
09-23-2012 8:27 PM


Re: Time for a change...
I haven't watched Fox in a long time, and I haven't watched it regularly in about 10 years.

Just another thing you're wrong about, eh?

Two wrongs don't make a right

But seriously, these are ridiculous points that Fox news brings out all the time. Which is why I equated the two. You sound like what Fox regurgitates all the time. I listen to Sean Hannity purely out of boredom and to get a chuckle (I commute nearly 50 miles to work a day). And he mindlessly repeats these same points (Obama is a 'community organizer' and a redistributionalist) as well as many others. These ridiculously stupid 'factoids' are effectively a mantra for the Republican party.


"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by Coyote, posted 09-23-2012 8:27 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by Coyote, posted 09-23-2012 8:46 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 1341 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 263 of 308 (673829)
09-23-2012 8:43 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by xongsmith
09-23-2012 8:38 PM


Re: Time for a change...
In fact, when it comes to assessing qualities for the President, business experience is a negative quality. In fact, something like "community organizer" is far more an indicator of good qualifications.

I disagree completely.

The US government is the biggest "business" there is, and having "organized" folks to picket and protest on a block or two in a big city is just not a good qualification. I think this has been proven over the last nearly four years.

The "fail" is strong in this one.


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Replies to this message:
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 Message 268 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 09-23-2012 9:54 PM Coyote has replied
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 1341 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 264 of 308 (673830)
09-23-2012 8:46 PM
Reply to: Message 262 by DevilsAdvocate
09-23-2012 8:38 PM


Re: Time for a change...
And he mindlessly repeats these same points (Obama is a 'community organizer' and a redistributionalist) as well as many others.

They happen to be accurate, no matter who says them.

As for Hannity, the last time I watched him I think Colmes was still there.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 09-23-2012 8:38 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 265 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 09-23-2012 9:18 PM Coyote has taken no action

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 2336 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 265 of 308 (673832)
09-23-2012 9:18 PM
Reply to: Message 264 by Coyote
09-23-2012 8:46 PM


Re: Time for a change...
They happen to be accurate, no matter who says them.

Yes Obama was a community organizer, so what. What is wrong with being a community organizer? He helped establish a job training program and other vital programs for Chicago residents. Famous community organizers have been Martin Luther King Jr., Saul Alinsky, Ralph Nader and Cesar Chavez. What are the benefits of community organizers? Civil Rights, universal suffrage, 8 hour work days, the weekend, the Freedom of Information Act, etc, etc. Probably some of the best experience working with and helping everyday working people is through being a community organizer.

Obama was also a civil rights attourney and taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago for 12 years and served in the Illinoise senate for 7 years. Also, noteworthy achievements.

And again, even you Coyote are a redistributionalist, unless you don't pay taxes and do not plan to use Social Security or Medicare.


"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by Coyote, posted 09-23-2012 8:46 PM Coyote has taken no action

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7311
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 266 of 308 (673833)
09-23-2012 9:30 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by Coyote
09-23-2012 8:43 PM


Re: Time for a change...
Governemnt is not a business. The purpose of government is not to make a profit.

quote:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Nothing there about profit or running a business. You will notice it says "general welfare" not welfare of the elites. If the founders wanted that they would have created an aristocratic class.

The US government is the biggest "business" there is

No it isn't it is a Constitution-based federal republic.
The US government is not a
quote:
a person, partnership, or corporation engaged in commerce, manufacturing, or a service; profit-seeking enterprise or concern.

Source

and having "organized" folks to picket and protest on a block or two in a big city is just not a good qualification.

Though you are trying to be insulting all you are doing is exposing your own ignorance and prejudice. Community organizers are important people in most communities in the USA. They do amazing work.

The "fail" is strong in this one.

Stunning, absolutely stunning.

Edited by Theodoric, : government instead of business


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by Coyote, posted 09-23-2012 8:43 PM Coyote has seen this message

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 93 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


Message 267 of 308 (673834)
09-23-2012 9:31 PM
Reply to: Message 258 by onifre
09-23-2012 8:04 PM


Re: Time for a change...
Here's a funny bit that says pretty much the same thing.

I am also quite cynical when it comes to politics, there just seems to be no good answer.

HBD


Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for. But until the end of the present exile has come and terminated this our imperfection by which "we know in part," I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca

"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.


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DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 2336 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 268 of 308 (673835)
09-23-2012 9:54 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by Coyote
09-23-2012 8:43 PM


Re: Time for a change...
and having "organized" folks to picket and protest on a block or two in a big city is just not a good qualification. I think this has been proven over the last nearly four years.

I guess Martin Luther King, Jr was an abysmal failure since he was a community organizer. If you are religious, the best known example of a community organizer, Jesus, was also a failure .

Besides, his experience as community organizer was just shy of 3 years fm 1985 to 1988. You have not even mentioned his more recent accomplishments: 12 years teaching constitutional law at the University of Chicago and as a civil right attourny, 7 years as a state senator and 3 years a US senator.

Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.


"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by Coyote, posted 09-23-2012 8:43 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by Coyote, posted 09-23-2012 10:09 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 1341 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 269 of 308 (673836)
09-23-2012 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 268 by DevilsAdvocate
09-23-2012 9:54 PM


Re: Time for a change...
I guess Martin Luther King, Jr was an abysmal failure since he was a community organizer. If you are religious, the best known example of a community organizer, Jesus, was also a failure .

Nice try. Our current president does not compare in any way to MLK. Nor to Jesus.

Besides, his experience as community organizer was just shy of 3 years fm 1985 to 1988. You have not even mentioned his more recent accomplishments: 12 years teaching constitutional law at the University of Chicago and as a civil right attourny, 7 years as a state senator and 3 years a US senator.

He was undistinguished in all of those. But he was not a true failure until he reached the presidency. He has failed on jobs, the economy, debt levels, and illegal immigration, to name a few. OK, one more--foreign policy.

Are you better off than you were 6 trillion dollars ago?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 09-23-2012 9:54 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

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nwr
Member
Posts: 5971
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 270 of 308 (673837)
09-23-2012 10:24 PM


Aircraft windows should open
Mitt Romney writes:

When you have a fire in an aircraft, there’s no place to go, exactly, there’s no — and you can’t find any oxygen from outside the aircraft to get in the aircraft, because the windows don’t open. I don’t know why they don’t do that. It’s a real problem. So it’s very dangerous.


http://www.latimes.com/...undraiser-20120922,0,2317962.story

Romney is even further out of touch with reality than we had realized.

Edited by nwr, : provide subtitle


Jesus was a liberal hippie

  
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