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Author Topic:   The Even More Awesome Presidential Election Thread
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 698 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


(4)
Message 271 of 308 (673839)
09-23-2012 10:28 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by Coyote
09-23-2012 8:43 PM


Re: Time for a change...
The US government is the biggest "business" there is

No, this is exactly wrong. The US government, particularly at the Presidental level, isn't a business and it isn't run like a business. For instance, Congress doesn't report to the President and they don't take orders from him. In fact, they don't have to do anything.

That requires a very different kind of leadership. Romney has only ever led in situations where his authority comes with an obligation of his subordinates to obey. But Congress is subordinate to no one; leading the United States from the office of the President is a process of consensus-building, not a process where you simply hand down marching orders.

Contrast Obama's incredibly effective term as President with Romney's essential non-activity as governor, and you can see that Obama's experience has served him much better than Romney's. For that matter, look at their campaigns - Obama has yet to make a mistake, but Romney is dealing with defections, gaffes, mixed messages, and other symptoms of failing leadership at the top.

I think this has been proven over the last nearly four years.

Look, you're entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts. The fact is, Obama is the most successful Democratic president of my lifetime, and yours. Maybe you don't like his agenda but he's been undeniably effective in getting it passed. The notion that Obama suffers from a "lack of leadership" is just another one of those contradictory things that conservatives keep trying to pin on him - he's the Chicago insider who's foreign birth estranges him from the idea of America, he's the messianic leader who no one will follow, he's the empty suit with the gift of gab who can't speak clearly without a teleprompter. None of it sticks because none of it makes any sense, unless you're trapped inside the "epistemic closure" of the conservative bubble.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by Coyote, posted 09-23-2012 8:43 PM Coyote has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 273 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-23-2012 11:17 PM crashfrog has replied

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 2333 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 272 of 308 (673841)
09-23-2012 11:01 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by Coyote
09-23-2012 10:09 PM


Re: Time for a change...
Nice try. Our current president does not compare in any way to MLK. Nor to Jesus.

Not trying to compare him to either on a personal level.

You are the one that brought up commuter organizer as a disqualifier. I was saying that there have been many examples of community organizers who are resounding successes and that being a community organizer can be great expirience for leadership in political offices.

He was undistinguished in all of those. But he was not a true failure until he reached the presidency.

In what ways?

He has failed on jobs, the economy, debt levels, and illegal immigration, to name a few. OK, one more--foreign policy.

How? Who do you consider successful in these areas? And if so why? Than we can compare.

Right now you are just speaking in Republican talking points with no real substance. Produce the facts and then we can get down to buisness and see what the truth is.

You seem to speak in the same terms that YEC do when debating a scientist about evolution. Throwing meaningless jargon, quips and talking points with no facts to back them up, hoping they will stick will not help you.

Are you better off than you were 6 trillion dollars ago?

Actually yes. I have a net increase in pay and my house has gone up in value. Wall street has rebounded and my thrift savings program (equivalent to an IRA) after the initial dip in 2009 has increased by about 20k dollars over the last two years.

Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.


"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 283 days)
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 273 of 308 (673842)
09-23-2012 11:17 PM
Reply to: Message 271 by crashfrog
09-23-2012 10:28 PM


Re: Time for a change...
The notion that Obama suffers from a "lack of leadership" is just another one of those contradictory things that conservatives keep trying to pin on him - he's the Chicago insider who's foreign birth estranges him from the idea of America, he's the messianic leader who no one will follow, he's the empty suit with the gift of gab who can't speak clearly without a teleprompter.

And he's been completely ineffectual in advancing his agenda and has turned America into a Communist country.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by crashfrog, posted 09-23-2012 10:28 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by crashfrog, posted 09-24-2012 8:23 AM Dr Adequate has taken no action

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 283 days)
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 274 of 308 (673843)
09-23-2012 11:23 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by Coyote
09-23-2012 7:39 PM


Re: Time for a change...
But one is proud of being a "community organizer" and a redistributionalist, while the other at least has some genuine accomplishments to his credit.

Yeah, let's list them.

(1) Romneycare.
(2) Er ...
(3) ... that's it?


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 279 by Jazzns, posted 09-24-2012 9:55 AM Dr Adequate has taken no action
 Message 283 by hooah212002, posted 09-24-2012 4:37 PM Dr Adequate has taken no action

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 283 days)
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 275 of 308 (673846)
09-24-2012 12:55 AM



  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2182 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(1)
Message 276 of 308 (673847)
09-24-2012 1:48 AM
Reply to: Message 269 by Coyote
09-23-2012 10:09 PM


Re: Time for a change...
He has failed on jobs, the economy, debt levels, and illegal immigration, to name a few. OK, one more--foreign policy.

He was handed a sinking ship.

Are you better off than you were 6 trillion dollars ago?

I sure am. Much much better in fact.

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 698 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 277 of 308 (673848)
09-24-2012 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 273 by Dr Adequate
09-23-2012 11:17 PM


Re: Time for a change...
Oo, that's a good one, too. Oh, and also - he's the guy who never stops working to undermine America but takes too many vacations.

Edited by crashfrog, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by Omnivorous, posted 09-24-2012 9:00 AM crashfrog has taken no action

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3851
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 278 of 308 (673849)
09-24-2012 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 277 by crashfrog
09-24-2012 8:23 AM


Re: Time for a change...
He'd never have been elected if he weren't black, but he isn't really black.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by crashfrog, posted 09-24-2012 8:23 AM crashfrog has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 287 by Dogmafood, posted 09-25-2012 7:03 AM Omnivorous has replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3143 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 279 of 308 (673853)
09-24-2012 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 274 by Dr Adequate
09-23-2012 11:23 PM


Re: Time for a change...
(3) ... that's it?

Don't forget that he saved the Olympics...

... with a government bailout.


If we long for our planet to be important, there is something we can do about it. We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and by the depth of our answers. --Carl Sagan

This message is a reply to:
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ramoss
Member
Posts: 3225
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 280 of 308 (673859)
09-24-2012 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 247 by Dr Adequate
09-22-2012 2:53 PM


When it comes to releasing the tax returns, .. I will note that in 2011, he was campaigning for Presidency, so of COURSE he wouldn't do anything that would trigger alarms.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-22-2012 2:53 PM Dr Adequate has taken no action

Replies to this message:
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ramoss
Member
Posts: 3225
Joined: 08-11-2004


(4)
Message 281 of 308 (673866)
09-24-2012 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by xongsmith
09-23-2012 8:38 PM


Re: Time for a change...
According to the bible, Pharaoh was a rich job creator.. God sided with a community organizer.

This message is a reply to:
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Taz
Member (Idle past 2523 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


(4)
Message 282 of 308 (673874)
09-24-2012 1:36 PM


If anything, god has always sided with the community organizer and the poor sympathizer. Remember the story about Jesus observing 2 people giving money to the rich? One was a rich man who gave a whole shitload of gold coins and the other was a poor widow who gave a single coin. Which one of the 2 gave more, Jesus ask?

Of course today's republicans would say the rich man gave more. Jesus, on the other hand, said it was the poor widow that gave more.

Somehow along the way the republican party has been taken over by a whole bunch of hypocrites who don't even know their own goddamn fairy tale.


  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 33 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 283 of 308 (673888)
09-24-2012 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 274 by Dr Adequate
09-23-2012 11:23 PM


Re: Time for a change...
You forgot:

5)Exceptionally good at not being named Barack Obama
6)Being white


"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
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ramoss
Member
Posts: 3225
Joined: 08-11-2004


(1)
Message 284 of 308 (673926)
09-24-2012 9:23 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by Coyote
09-23-2012 10:09 PM


Re: Time for a change...
He was undistinguished in all of those. But he was not a true failure until he reached the presidency. He has failed on jobs, the economy, debt levels, and illegal immigration, to name a few. OK, one more--foreign policy.

Ok.. so you argument against Obama is 'Obama didn't clean up the mess he was left fast enough, so vote republican so they can institute the polices that caused the problems to begin with?'??


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 283 days)
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 285 of 308 (673927)
09-24-2012 9:31 PM
Reply to: Message 284 by ramoss
09-24-2012 9:23 PM


Re: Time for a change...
Well, if the fireman with the firehose still hasn't put the fire out, obviously the guy to turn to is the arsonist with his can of gasoline. That's just common sense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by ramoss, posted 09-24-2012 9:23 PM ramoss has taken no action

  
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