do Christians want their values enforced on everyone by law?

In the Haggerd thread, a side thread started regarding the political leanings of Jesus. NJ wrote in Message 56:

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Jesus isn't a Conservative and He isn't a Liberal.

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I replied, in Message #64, by writing: Faith then replied, writing in Message #65:

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Jesus is different from a Liberal in that He never suggested that people should be FORCED by the government to do all those good things. Obedience to God is an individual thing.

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To which I replied in Message #67: To which Faith replied in Messgae #70:

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All those "liberal" values are for individuals, not for the state to enforce. That's all I'm saying. They are certainly Christian principles for believers to obey.

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And finally, I responded, in Message #72: There was no response.------------------------------------The question I have is regarding this seeming contradiction in what Faith is saying.On the one hand, she agrees that all of those Liberal principles of compassion and not being judgemental, paying your taxes, being peacemakers and turning the other cheek, etc. are all good Christian values.She then claims that Jesus shouldn't be thought of as a liberal because he didn't advocate those principles being imposed upon us through the government.What I'd like to understand is why she, or any other Christian, would be opposed to these Christian principles being imposed by the government but completely support the governement imposing other Christian principles, such as banning gay marriage, banning embyonic stem cell research, stopping FDA approval of certain drugs because they have a religious objection to their uses even though those uses are legal, etc?Social issues, pleaseEdited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

The problem, of course, is that not all "Christian values" are created equal, at least not in the eyes of the Godstapo.Let the rationalizations begin!

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

This is a difficult to answer easily. There is no easy answer. I am of the firm belief that a Theocracy is about the worst thing a government could do, right up their with communism. You cannot force people to agree with the tenets of God. It just doesn't work that way. And if God doesn't try doing that, why should we? However, we are supposed to preach His Name everywhere go and to speak about His unfailing love and eternal law.Does that mean Christians need to be subservient little church mice who never rock the boat and never stick up for their beliefs? No, definitely not. We are afforded as much right as anyone else to share our deepest convictions. We are allowed to vote against gay marriage, especially when the very definition of marriage is required of a man and a woman. We also are afforded the right to vote against fetal stem cell research if it promotes the killing of a baby. Likewise, the opposition is afforded the right to vote however they want. That's the beauty of Democracy. It is far from perfect. But you can't force the human spirit to side with any particular dogma. We were given a freewill.

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"The weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God." -2^nd Corinthians 10:4-5

Ever notice how people who cite Torah law as a precedent for modern law on the subject of homosexuality get so quiet when the subject turns to masturbation and menstruation?Leviticus 15.16-24
oremus Bible Browser : leviticus 15.16-24____Edited by Archer Opterix, : URL.

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ArcherAll species are transitional.

All true, but completely beside the point.The question is why the religious right, or anyone for that matter, wants to put only some so-called Christian values into law.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

Many people have put together a list similar to the following, but this is the one I can find easiest. From The West Wing:

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

Technically, I think she can do that.Liberal principles are good Christian values....= B=A?Personally, because these political categories come well after Jesus, and refer to a modern world, then any political category you put Christ into is not valid. We can say principles are Christ-like, but to say that Jesus was something post-Christ, can't be known.It's not reasonable because it cannot be known if Jesus would agree with liberal principles.This can be a mistake of the undistributed middle term. Example;nazzis believed in God
Jesus believed in God

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Therefore Jesus was a nazziLikewise;Jesus has peaceful teachings
A liberal has peaceful teachings,

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Therefore Jesus was a liberal

I don't align myself with the Religious Right because they politicize Jesus. I don't agree with that. As far as I go, the aborting of one person so that another person might not have a disease is a terrible idea. I don't see that as an inherently religious concept. Sure, that belief is shared by many theologians, but that is not something forced on a congregation. There is nothing in the Bible that directly speaks against abortion, for instance. I believe it is greatly inferred, but that really is besides the point. Whether I believed in God or not might not bear a reflection on whether I viewed abortion as wrong.

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"The weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God." -2^nd Corinthians 10:4-5

This is absurd. In one sentence you say that Christians cannot force their beliefs on others, and then in the next paragraph you say that Chriastians can prevent homosexuals from marrying? Here's a clue: using your faiths teachings to restric another's lifestyle through law IS Theocratic! Your point would be valid IF allowing gay marriage forced Christians to marry same sex partners, but it doesn't - it simply allows it for people who obviously don't share the Christian belief that it is wrong.Do you see the disconnect? Do you see why you're being bigotted and hypocritical?Theocracy = forcing religious rules on everyone, including non-believers.
Restricting gay marriage = forcing the Christian definition of marriage on those who do not share the same belief.Since the restriction of gay marriage has literally zero societal benefit other than not meeting the Christiandefinition of marriage, the restriction of gay marriage is, in fact, a form of Theocratic rule. Remember - the US government is not Christian - it can't be. We have a seperation of church and state so that all faiths and people who have no faith can all be safe and free from persecution and undue restrictions. This means that the state's marriage license is a nonreligious contract, nothing more, and the religious component of marriage is up to the church. Christians can feel perfectly free to refuse to marry homosexuals in their churches, but to make it actually illegal for them to receive a marriage license is Theocratic.

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Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

the unfortunate thing about democracy is that if the majority of the people want a theocracy, we have one.

1. The issues you cite are issues at large and not limited to Christians. For example gay marriage may be banned in some totalitarian anit-Christian nations and are banned as I understand.2. All governments impose laws. In a democratic republic such as ours the people choose who gets into government position to impose laws. So when the electorate votes, regardless of ideology, the electorate at large decides who will impose laws. Gays likely will support their agendas and evangelicals theirs. Ultimately Christians perse impose no laws. Elected officials do that. We all work in the system to advance our ideological agendas.3. The majority way back in Jefferson's day in fact voted for this president who had church services in the halls of congress and decided that the marine band would be nice for the music in those services. Magin that. Nowadays the majority wouldn't think of such a thing.4. So madear, do the American thing that's been done for 200+ years. Get out, root for and vote for folks who impose laws you want imposed and who refrain from imposing others. I and my Biblicalist fellow citizens will do the same. Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

The problem is that we have this thing called "The Constitution" and it, not the decisions of our elected officials, is the highest law of the land.That makes it a little more tricky than mob rule, and it also gives minorities (in the numeric, population sense) more power than they would otherwise. It prevents 51% of the population from steamrolling the other 49%. It prevents a majority from enslaving a minority.It's actually a pretty good idea, but I can see how Christianists would oppose it, or anything else that stands in the way of the unchecked power they'd love to wield over the rest of us. No surprise then that Buz would pretend like it doesn't even exist.

LOL. When then does the alleged theocracy get the Bible back in government schools as it was for over a century before the secularists took over?

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

Why then did the authors/framers of the constitution have far more Christianity in government than is allowed by the more secularist electorate today.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28