quote: What claims are you talking about? Looking at San Francisco today without geological tools, one would have no reason to suspect there was ever a great earthquake there. It is very likely a whole egyptian city did move. The documentary made a very convincing case for it.
I am talking about the claims you refer to. The fact that you choose to qualify your claim about the San Francisco earthquake - to the point of rendering it irrelevant - shows that even you have trouble believing that one. Your claim about the Egyptian city is dubious too - how did they make a "very convincing case" that it moved unless they had evidence - and strong evidence at that.
quote: What would happen if you wiped out the human population and reseeded it with 7 people?
More like 5 in the Flood story (you count Noah and his wife, but not the sons). You'd see a massive genetic bottleneck in humanity and a genetic and archaeological discontinuity over practically all the world, where the people all died and were eventually replaced by descendants of the survivors. We don't have any of that. So even considering humans alone the Flood story doesn't stand up.
Peeta's initial foray was pretty pathetic. As expected he's going to be making it up as he goes along. He begins by asking Coyote which YEC age of the Earth he should use, then follows that with an off-topic post about sin and why we wear clothes and have to worry about freezing to death.
Late August is a time when many college students return to campus, and while waiting for friends to return and for classes to begin some of them stumble across this site. Peeta will soon run out of spare time and be seen no more.
The arrived at their conclusion by starting with historical documents. When the evidence did not match up to the documents, they began to ask why. The first thing that cleared things up was that the position of the nile was different when the document was written than it is today. The other piece of evidence that solidified their case was another city some distance away that matched in fine detail what the document said about the city. What clinched it was a good solid reason for moving the city.
I cannot remember the name of the egyptian city I saw documented on the history channel,
Well if you cannot give us any more info than this we will just have to file this under shit you made up.
The first thing that cleared things up was that the position of the nile was different when the document was written than it is today.
No shit. Anyone with a passing knowledge of the Nile and Egyptian history knows the Nile has wandered throughout history.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
Actually Percy, it was not all made up. I had my own reasons for asking Coyote about the clothes. Now on the other hand, something that is a completely false fabrication is your assuming that I am in college.
and btw I'm from New Hampshire too, so if you really wanna find out what I'm talking about we should meet up somewhere so I can explain.
And (with the exception of carbon dating) how do we know how old the universe is?
*Cough* *cough* *sputter*
Peeta, how much science schooling have you had? Are you in the least familiar with carbon dating? With radiometric dating? With half-lives?
Let's say that you need to weigh something. What kind of a scale would you use? Simply put, if you were really serious about making that measurement, then you would have to pick the appropriate scale.
OK, I've been trained as an electronics technician, in which one of our tools is a voltmeter. If you pick up a multi-meter (measures voltage, current, and resistance over multiple ranges) to measure a certain voltage, which range do you use? Ignoring standard procedure in which we don't peg the D'Arsonval meter movement which would destroy it (ultimately within a physical multimeter it all boils down to measuring current, though things are different in a digital multimeter), we need to choose the right range to make our measurement. Pick a range too low and the reading will read at the max, but if you pick a range too high then the reading will be too low to measure accurately. The same idea applies to weighing something and having to know to use a bathroom scale, a truck scale, or an apothecary's scale.
Different isotopes have different decay rates, different half-lives. Some are longer than others, much much longer. As a result, the isotopes with longer half-lives can measure time for much longer than isotopes with much shorter half-lives. Uranium half-lives are very long, so their half-lives and their daughters' half-lives can be used to measure long periods of time, periods of time appropriate to measuring the age of the earth. Carbon-14's half-life is much shorter, such that the longest period of time that C-14 can measure is about 50,000 years.
So if you apply C-14 dating to something that is much older than 50,000 years, you will come up with the maximum reading of the C-14 scale, 50,000 years. Over the decades, I have watched one creationist after another parade some sample millions of years old that they had subjected to C-14 testing and came up with an age of 50,000 years. Duh? Kent Hovind, convicted on the federal level of fraud (OK, tax fraud, but he also has lied about everything else), had even submitted a completely fossilized specimen for C-14 testing and it came back aged at the maximum, 50,000 years, though in that YouTube clip, the narrator kept shouting, "But there's no f***ing carbon!"
Radio-carbon dating has absolutely nothing to do with determining the age of the earth. When a creationist tries to claim that it does, then that is immediate proof that that creationist has absolutely no idea what he's talking about. Kind of like when a creationist says, "But evolution is only a theory!"
But your question of how we do know how old the earth and the universe is is an appropriate and necessary question. The answers are there. You just need to be ready to learn them.
Consider The Age of the Earth by G. Brent Dalrymple of the US Geological Survey (1994). Most of the same have been published everywhere.
But in the meantime, you need to disabuse yourself of certain false ideas, such as carbon-dating having anything at all to do with the age of the earth, let alone the universe.
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Fix message ID number, per RAZD in message 43 below.
He is making some errors, but perhaps some of his questions have a point. Coyote seems inclined to be patient with him. I think we should be too. Engaging the peanut gallery is a mistake.
You cannot really Gish Gallop effectively in a written debate on a limited subject because you are going to get called on it.
I disagree with Percy on one thing. There used to be a huge "August" effect back in the '90s, when freshmen got to college found the internet and usenet for the first time, but nowadays August seems to be year round.
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
“Choose silence of all virtues, for by it you hear other men's imperfections, and conceal your own.” George Bernard Shaw
quote: What happened to the three women that was no kin and therefore did not have the DNA of the 5 you mentioned? They could have all 3 had completely different DNA
The 5 are Noah, his wife and the wives of the 3 sons. As I said quite explicitly it is the three sons that are not counted out of the 8. So, if you meant the 3 wives, they are clearly included to anyone who can manage to subtract 3 from 8. If you mean some other 3 women I am going to ask where you got them from.