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Author Topic:   The $5,000,000 ID Research Challenge
Thugpreacha
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Posts: 12677
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 162 of 285 (687688)
01-15-2013 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by Tangle
01-14-2013 7:42 PM


Re: Sigh.
Tangle writes:

The reason is that it's easier to preach than debate.

Two points.

1) Preaching is not easier than debating because in order to preach you have to listen to the Spirit...you cant just go off on your own intellect and opinion.

2) Debate is also not easy, but its useful. I'll start one by maintaining that human wisdom will never get us where we need to be(or ideally want to be) by itself. The fear (and acknowledgement) of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

I suppose that you will challenge this assertion by saying that essentially absence of evidence is evidence of absence...but i see no evidence that human wisdom will ever enable the inhabitants of a dust speck 9 light minutes away from the sun(nearest star) in a galaxy of 100 billion stars among 100+ billion galaxies will ever attain the knowledge that a (hypothetical) Creator already has.


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Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by Straggler, posted 01-15-2013 12:44 PM Thugpreacha has responded
 Message 169 by Taq, posted 01-15-2013 3:26 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12677
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 164 of 285 (687693)
01-15-2013 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by Straggler
01-15-2013 12:44 PM


Re: Hypotheticals
Straggler writes:

Or are you suggesting that the absence of such a knowledgeable human is evidence that such a knowledgeable human could not possibly exist......?

If I acknowledged that I had access to divine wisdom, I would appear insane or arrogant, but if I only admitted that such divinity is impossible, I couldn't be honest with my belief.

Thus this reply.


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 Message 165 by Straggler, posted 01-15-2013 1:00 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12677
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 166 of 285 (687695)
01-15-2013 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by Straggler
01-15-2013 1:00 PM


Re: Hypotheticals
Watch this hypothetical argument and tell me what you think, Straggie.


Inside & Outside- Broadcast your self LIVE


This message is a reply to:
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Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12677
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 168 of 285 (687701)
01-15-2013 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by Straggler
01-15-2013 1:21 PM


Re: Hypotheticals
Taq writes:

That is the challenge for this thread. Show us what the ID research program would actually need to do, what equipment would be needed to do this research, and how you would prioritize the money in this laboratory. Show us what a real ID research program would look like.

Now mind you, this money is not to be spent testing evolution. It is meant to study ID, not evolution. Any experiments that test evolution will not meet the guidelines set out in the challenge.

How does one study intelligent design apart from studying intelligence itself? My basic take on all of this is that intelligence is determined through a spiritual flow.
Taq writes:

What we are actually interested in is if life on Earth was produced by an intelligence in the past.

And I would maintain that such an intelligence exists and is past, present and future intelligence.
Ringo writes:

But I think ID'ists are far from conceding that it could happen. Their desired outcome is that intelligence is necessary but our intelligence is insufficient.

And I would agree that our intelligence is insufficient...at least as far as creating anything much bigger than the Panama Canal or a super collidor.

Straggler writes:

hypothetically a hypothetical human could obtain as much knowledge as a hypothetical creator.

I think you are either overestimating hypothetical humans ability to create or you are underestimating the power...never mind possibility...of a hypothetical Designer apart from humanity.

Straggler writes:

Well why don't we test this belief in divine wisdom? That could form the basis for a research project could it not?

Let's take someone who believes that they are in communication with the divine (e.g. yourself apparently) and see whether they can demonstrate the validity of this belief by extracting some knowledge from the divine that it would otherwise not be possible for a mere human to have access to.

I never said that you or anyone else could not have access to the concept of such knowledge. I only claim that you would not know how to use it. A Designer would. (hypothetically, of course. )

Straggler, responding to my video writes:

Well I think it's a deeply flawed position on the problem of evil that has little relevance to this topic.

I disagree. The intellect without acknowledgement of a Designer is outside of communion. The intellect that acknowledges the possibility of a Designer is in communion. Problem?
This message is a reply to:
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Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12677
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 170 of 285 (687714)
01-15-2013 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by Taq
01-15-2013 3:26 PM


Logic and Reason
It is about defending a belief that you are already emotionally invested in from logic and reason.
That assumes that logic and reason rule God out. In my experience they don't.

I will admit, however, that the scientific method has served us well in explaining unexplainable things, whereas religious dogma has historically done poorly.

Not that I dont believe spirituality CANT explain reality, mind you.


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 Message 169 by Taq, posted 01-15-2013 3:26 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by Taq, posted 01-15-2013 4:29 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
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