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Author Topic:   The $5,000,000 ID Research Challenge
Percy
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Posts: 18795
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(4)
Message 29 of 285 (672252)
09-05-2012 8:30 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by PaulK
09-05-2012 2:00 AM


My Take
I don't understand the nitpicking about Genomicus's research proposals. If the ID crowd were actually engaged in any of the investigations he proposes I, for one, would be applauding. I'd still think the research was unfounded upon any real world observations, but at least it would be actual research on ID. It would be a welcome break from all the dishonest portrayals of evolution they usually engage in.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by PaulK, posted 09-05-2012 2:00 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by PaulK, posted 09-05-2012 8:55 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 31 by Taq, posted 09-05-2012 10:49 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18795
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 37 of 285 (673744)
09-21-2012 10:32 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Zargon
09-21-2012 9:22 PM


Re: Intelligence
Zargon writes:

So how can a spaceless and time less God, beyond the control of the laws of science, be intelligent?

The fallacy in your logic is to conclude that because the only intelligence we know of works within the confines of the laws of science that all intelligence must share that constraint.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Zargon, posted 09-21-2012 9:22 PM Zargon has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Zargon, posted 09-22-2012 6:33 AM Percy has responded
 Message 40 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-22-2012 7:30 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18795
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 39 of 285 (673757)
09-22-2012 7:27 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Zargon
09-22-2012 6:33 AM


Re: Intelligence
Zargon writes:

Well, yes. What can really exist beyond the laws of science?

I don't know, but it sounds like you are saying that you know and that the answer is "Nothing."

There's an old saying in science: "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." Your conclusions outreach your evidence. Or as Wittgenstein said, "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent."

Whatever speculations creationists or IDists might have about the nature of the creative intelligence responsible for life in our universe, if they want to claim it exists in a realm outside our universe then there's nothing science can say about it because we have no evidence. Of course, they also have no evidence, but they don't seem to understand that.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Zargon, posted 09-22-2012 6:33 AM Zargon has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Zargon, posted 09-22-2012 7:55 AM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18795
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 42 of 285 (673765)
09-22-2012 8:54 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Zargon
09-22-2012 7:55 AM


Re: Intelligence
Sorry, your chain of logic makes no sense to me.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Zargon, posted 09-22-2012 7:55 AM Zargon has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Zargon, posted 09-22-2012 11:51 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18795
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(3)
Message 108 of 285 (683866)
12-14-2012 8:07 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by tesla
12-13-2012 10:16 PM


Re: spend it on space exploration/ Brain research.
tesla writes:

I will believe it when you come up with experiments to test it. That is what I have been asking for this entire thread.

You are not accepting answers you do not agree with, despite the fact they are working answers to the question, and I’ve informed you there are many types of tests that can be run and performed in brain research and interstellar travel.

I went back and read all your posts where you mentioned brain research and interstellar travel. Turns out that's all you did, mention them. The opening post of this thread actually asks a more detailed question:

Opening Post writes:

So what if they did get $5,000,000 to spend on a new research facility? What would they spend it on? That is the challenge for this thread. Show us what the ID research program would actually need to do, what equipment would be needed to do this research, and how you would prioritize the money in this laboratory. Show us what a real ID research program would look like.

Imagine that you're competing with proposals from other Christians. How are you going to convince a board of Christian fundamentalists that their $5,000,000 should be spent on seeking an omnipresent God in space or in the brain? How would you answer their questions, which might be somewhat like these:

  • What leads you to believe God can be found through non-spiritual means?

  • What if God is at the center of the Earth or Sun?

  • What should we be looking for in the brain that would lead us to God?

  • Have you had your sanity checked?

  • ...etc...

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by tesla, posted 12-13-2012 10:16 PM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by tesla, posted 12-14-2012 8:07 PM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18795
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(5)
Message 118 of 285 (683997)
12-14-2012 8:51 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by tesla
12-14-2012 8:07 PM


Re: spend it on space exploration/ Brain research.
tesla writes:

If you want the specific tests that will be run, you need to talk to persons in those fields I have mentioned that could make breakthroughs in consciousness and interstellar travels.

You must have been a wonderful test taker:

"What year did Columbus discover America?"

"If you want to know that you'll have to talk to someone who read the chapter."

Obviously you're not getting the $5,000,000.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by tesla, posted 12-14-2012 8:07 PM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by tesla, posted 12-15-2012 10:14 AM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18795
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 125 of 285 (684079)
12-15-2012 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by tesla
12-15-2012 10:14 AM


Re: spend it on space exploration/ Brain research.
tesla writes:

Why would you hire a director to act, if he's a director?

I didn't hire you. You hired yourself for this thread and started writing checks that your knowledge can't cash. You're trying to ante up using worthless scrip. You're an embarrassment to your namesake. If you're not up to the demands of this thread maybe you should watch from the sidelines instead of taking up space with excuses.

What is so hard for you about typing "intelligent design brain research" into a browser to see what ideas are out there? And what is the origin of your perverse idea that others should research and defend your ideas for you?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by tesla, posted 12-15-2012 10:14 AM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by tesla, posted 12-23-2012 12:17 AM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18795
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 134 of 285 (685504)
12-23-2012 8:08 AM
Reply to: Message 130 by tesla
12-23-2012 12:17 AM


Re: spend it on space exploration/ Brain research.
Hi Tesla,

The way to deflect the criticism being directed your way is to answer the question everyone is asking you: How would research into space travel and the brain relate to ID?

Your current answer, "I don't know, I'm the wrong person to answer this question, but I know that it would relate to ID, and you, not me, should go off and find the answers, and if you don't then you, not me, have offered nothing and are filled with naysaying and pessimism," is why you're getting all the criticism.

Let me ask you a couple rhetorical questions: How does one know that answers one has never seen exist? Who is responsible for supporting claims, the person making them or the person hearing them?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by tesla, posted 12-23-2012 12:17 AM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by tesla, posted 12-24-2012 10:17 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18795
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 143 of 285 (686007)
12-28-2012 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by tesla
12-27-2012 8:50 PM


Re: Sigh.
Hi Tesla,

Let's imagine an application form for the $5 million ID research grant:

  1. What is your hypothesis? Please include a description of the evidence upon which your hypothesis is based.

  2. How will you investigate your hypothesis? General outlines of the experimental and/or observational procedures are sufficient.

  3. What results are expected if your hypothesis is true? Please be specific.

This is the minimal amount of information necessary for considering a research proposal.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by tesla, posted 12-27-2012 8:50 PM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by tesla, posted 01-13-2013 5:01 PM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18795
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(2)
Message 151 of 285 (687598)
01-14-2013 8:45 AM
Reply to: Message 149 by tesla
01-13-2013 5:01 PM


Re: Sigh.
Hi Tesla,

I think you've seriously misunderstood the nature of the objections to your ideas. In this thread no one is suggesting that we shouldn't research ID. In fact, the purpose of this thread is to solicit ID research proposals.

The objection to your ideas is that they aren't research proposals.

So no one is saying that we shouldn't include interstellar, mind and intelligence research proposals. What we're saying is that just saying something like, "We should research interstellar ideas," is not a research proposal. No one's going to give you $5,000,000 based on that.

So, if you'd like to try again:

  1. What is your hypothesis? Please include a description of the evidence upon which your hypothesis is based.

  2. How will you investigate your hypothesis? General outlines of the experimental and/or observational procedures are sufficient.

  3. What results are expected if your hypothesis is true? Please be specific.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by tesla, posted 01-13-2013 5:01 PM tesla has acknowledged this reply

    
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