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Author Topic:   The $5,000,000 ID Research Challenge
tesla
Member (Idle past 2282 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 44 of 285 (678590)
11-09-2012 8:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taq
08-30-2012 12:39 PM


spend it on space exploration/ Brain research.
Perhaps there is a species that is more advanced than the human race on another planet. Maybe that species could shed light on some of our ignorance, or even have higher capabilities of consciousness that human minds cannot even imagine.

Dump the money into designing ships and satellites to head for the earth-like planets we are discovering, dump it into light-speed research. Basically: dump it into space.

The only other way to research possibilities of discovering ID truth is to better understand our own consciousness. So it could also be dumped into brain research, and brain mapping. Maybe we could learn to ‘read’ brain waves via understanding how our brains record and relay information so well, that we could both read or write to a brain from a moderate distance. Maybe being able to do so would open the door to communication with an intelligence that is distant, yet still communicable with the right understanding.

So, there you have it. That’s what I would do if I was advocating or performing research on ID.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Taq, posted 08-30-2012 12:39 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Taq, posted 11-09-2012 12:49 PM tesla has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2282 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 46 of 285 (678688)
11-09-2012 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Taq
11-09-2012 12:49 PM


Re: spend it on space exploration/ Brain research.
So your research would be more on how we could use ID in the future to design technology, correct?

No. I.D. is loosly defined. So since everyone wants to play with the definition and argue that, I would like to supply a definition that supports my argument.

That Definition is simply: The universe was designed to operate in the order it does, including all dynamics of evolutions, the physical boundaries of mass and it's relativity to other energies and masses.

Of course the definition would require a 'designer' of unknown and perhaps unfathamable power and ability next to human abilities.

My argument would imply that the potential for such a thing, and even the potential for the idea of this universe being a design by a greater being, is true.

That: for those who wish to research science and life to try to ascertain the truth; should target work done to understand consciousness and expand on that. Know the brain and energy transfers and recording methods and break the code of brain communication within itself.

What will the research yield? Who knows? That’s why it's called 'research'.

Also--if you’re a science geek--who doesn't like star trek, eh? Maybe there is a Vulcan of sorts out there. It’s worth seeking.

So what would be wrong with a few billion worshipers of thier God doing what they have always done and seek God? Let them seek God with the greatest tools of mankind in understanding the world we inhabit. I believe that is the tools of science.

Don't tell me you would turn down five million dollars to experiment on solar sail capabilities? If that money came from churches or the pope, or Buddhists, or various protestants, what would that matter?


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Taq, posted 11-09-2012 12:49 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by NoNukes, posted 11-09-2012 10:03 PM tesla has responded
 Message 55 by Taq, posted 11-13-2012 11:35 AM tesla has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2282 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 48 of 285 (678699)
11-09-2012 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by NoNukes
11-09-2012 10:03 PM


Re: spend it on space exploration/ Brain research.
Please connect the dots. How would studying the brain and communication within the brain lead to an understanding of God? Why should we expect that studying the brain is going to lead to a greater understanding of the world we inhabit than directly studying the world we inhabit?

Are you suggesting the brain is not a direct part of the world we inhabit?


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by NoNukes, posted 11-09-2012 10:03 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by NoNukes, posted 11-10-2012 12:25 AM tesla has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2282 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 50 of 285 (678738)
11-10-2012 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by NoNukes
11-10-2012 12:25 AM


Re: spend it on space exploration/ Brain research.
I am


http://www.wired.co.uk/...12-02/10/donating-brain-to-science

http://www.cognifit.com/cognition

http://www.nytimes.com/...-improves-thinking-in-monkeys.html

The human brain is a very real part of the world we inhabit, in fact it is through that tool that every living species has the power to think, to feel, to investigate, and to remember. Without your brain, you would not know the world around you even existed.

Science has many researches in the field, from those who study to map cognitive functions and fight brain disorders, to scientist creating implants that will operate prosthetic limbs.

There is a lot yet to know about the brain and how thoughts and ideas are formed. the mystery of the human brain--which is the greatest work of engineering ever found in natural systems--is slowly being understood. Monkeys are made smarter, and human behavior is being better understood, even to the point that some fear mind control.

Whatever you may think of your own brain, it is your brain that enables you to think. and scientists all over the world are very interested in making that process better.

Edited by tesla, : missed a / in [/qs]

Edited by tesla, : missed a / in [/qs]


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by NoNukes, posted 11-10-2012 12:25 AM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by NoNukes, posted 11-10-2012 11:13 AM tesla has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2282 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 52 of 285 (678811)
11-10-2012 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by NoNukes
11-10-2012 11:13 AM


Re: Human brain part of the world we live in? Not so much.
Except the part about every living species using a human brain.

You know what I meant.

However, I don't expect it to be productive to study communications in a human brain in an attempt to learn how God created the universe

You don't think about possibilities of consciousness? The reason to look to the brain for answers concerning intelligent design is because intelligence denotes consciousness, which as far as I know requires a brain. The more we understand that system of our world, the better chance we have of seeing if it is possible on larger scales.

Do you follow me? Or are you just being argumentative?


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by NoNukes, posted 11-10-2012 11:13 AM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by NoNukes, posted 11-10-2012 9:23 PM tesla has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2282 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 54 of 285 (678882)
11-11-2012 8:16 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by NoNukes
11-10-2012 9:23 PM


Re: Human brain part of the world we live in? of course it is silly.
So you are postulating an intelligent designer that has a brain based consciousness like ours or analogous to ours but on a larger scale? So we study our own brain processes and then we will understand the designer. Is that your proposal?

No. My proposal is to study the brain to better understand consciousness in hopes new knowledge will shed light on possibilities of greater consciousness, and how to look for it.

Edited by tesla, : No reason given.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by NoNukes, posted 11-10-2012 9:23 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Taq, posted 11-13-2012 11:36 AM tesla has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2282 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 57 of 285 (679395)
11-13-2012 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Taq
11-13-2012 11:35 AM


Re: spend it on space exploration/ Brain research.
I am more interested in research that demonstrates that an intelligent designer DID design things in the past. Can you describe the types of experiments you would need to do in order to figure this out?

Until more information about our universe is known, there isn't anything you could do to begin researching such a question. The best thing for now is better understand consciousness and hope that data proves useful to the ends of discovering the potential designer. The second best thing is figuring out higher speed space travel and better waves of interstellar living or extra-planetary living. Doing those kinds of things may one day lead to enough information to ask that question again.

More to the point, why would they need $5,000,000 dollars to do scientific research that would support their claims?

The money isn't for them to support claims. the money is for scientists to explore potentials.

The title of the thread is not "The $5,000,000 Solar Sail Challenge".

Ah, but if solar sails are a part of the puzzle to the end goal, then it's a required investment. Nobody can explore space without equipment to explore it. And nobody needed to make an atom of gold to verify the Higgs Bosen.

You can't answer a question without taking the path to the answer. You can't do calculus without knowing algebra.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Taq, posted 11-13-2012 11:35 AM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Taq, posted 11-14-2012 10:52 AM tesla has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2282 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 58 of 285 (679396)
11-13-2012 6:11 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Taq
11-13-2012 11:36 AM


Re: Human brain part of the world we live in? of course it is silly.
That would not satisfy the requirements for the challenge I have set forth in this thread.

Could you repost your requirements for the challenge, including any modifications you have made through discussion?


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Taq, posted 11-13-2012 11:36 AM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by NoNukes, posted 11-14-2012 6:28 AM tesla has responded
 Message 60 by Taq, posted 11-14-2012 10:49 AM tesla has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2282 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 62 of 285 (679624)
11-14-2012 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by Taq
11-14-2012 10:49 AM


Re: Human brain part of the world we live in? of course it is silly.
The primary focus of your ideas are not focused on the history of life. Rather, you are focused on the future of human intelligence. Even if we gain super-intelligence and are able to design planets of life of our own this does not mean that we came about because of such a cause. You still need to find evidence for ID in the past, and that evidence should be found in our genomes and in the fossil record.

Well, my belief is more that in order to understand the past, we need more capabilities to see it as it really is first. I think in the future, we could find a key piece of physics to make the past more visible, through understanding what we inhabit as is now.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Taq, posted 11-14-2012 10:49 AM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Taq, posted 11-15-2012 1:36 PM tesla has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2282 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 63 of 285 (679626)
11-14-2012 10:26 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Taq
11-14-2012 10:52 AM


Re: spend it on space exploration/ Brain research.
Obviously, not everyone agrees with you. There are people who are claiming that the evidence we have right now is sufficient for concluding that life is designed.

There are some people that believe in the six foot tall rabbit. What we believe personally is what matters.

So what experiments would they run to explore the potential that life was designed?

I'm not sure. But I can point out the areas I have already stated would be good areas to begin designing research experiments, and the question to be answered.

1. Brain research to understand how memories are written, stored and accessed as accurate information. (Understanding consciousness and awareness to give insight on possibilities of greater awareness or state of consciousness)

2. Explore space. Maybe a more evolved species is out there.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Taq, posted 11-14-2012 10:52 AM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Taq, posted 11-15-2012 1:45 PM tesla has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2282 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 64 of 285 (679627)
11-14-2012 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by NoNukes
11-14-2012 6:28 AM


Re: Human brain part of the world we live in? of course it is silly.
But the short answer is that you have not even addressed what was asked for in the original post (message 1).

Message 44. Tools for the various fields would be tools related to the cause, which would be costly and numerous. due to that, the chosen researcher would have to detail the requirements of lab for their specific research needs, be it space travel engines and mechanisms, or brain scanning and mapping equipment with advanced statistical capabilities.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by NoNukes, posted 11-14-2012 6:28 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Taq, posted 11-15-2012 1:48 PM tesla has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2282 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 68 of 285 (679768)
11-15-2012 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Taq
11-15-2012 1:36 PM


The path of research…What needs to be known first??
Would it be safe to say that the research I am asking for can't be done right now?

It is not that simple to say that...

For instance: The plan of researching if it was possible to land a man on the moon required first understanding if we could leave the earth’s atmosphere safely.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Taq, posted 11-15-2012 1:36 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Taq, posted 11-15-2012 5:15 PM tesla has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2282 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 70 of 285 (679775)
11-15-2012 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Taq
11-15-2012 1:45 PM


Re: spend it on space exploration/ Brain research.
I completely disagree. Our beliefs mean diddley squat. What matters is what is real. Reality does not conform to our beliefs, so every minute spent on coddling our beliefs is a minute not spent on figuring out how reality works.

That is the central point of this thread. Instead of saying "I believe . . ." you should be saying "This evidence demonstrates . . ." or "this hypothesis predicts . . .". You can believe that the Earth is stationary and the universe moves about it, but the Earth still moves.

‘If’ is a very big word. A hypothesis is still a guess, and a fact is arguably only a fact because of a majority agreeing with an interpretation of a data set. You believe what you choose to believe because you have trusted the source of the information, and the interpretation of the results. That does not mean there are not any mistakes in the interpretations of what the data actually models of the behaviors.

You choose to believe, and no one else's belief will trump that.

That is not ID research.

In my opinion, if this universe was the outcome of a carefully balanced set of rules set in place by a very careful entity: then any research of how this universe works: is research of Intelligent Design.

But 'if' as I said before, is a very strong word. if one is going to tailor their research to examine I.D. then the research will have to be in understanding better the areas that target the 'intelligence' of intelligent design. One must look for greater being, and understand consciousness. Since that is not yet understood fully, that is where someone starts.

Now one must also be looking at real data. Not imaginations. Which means: one needs to physically see what an imagination is on its atomic and chemical levels.

And since we do not have very strong interstellar capabilities: to search space for greater 'being', there needs to be better ways of navigating such large distances.

What I'm proposing is actual research into I.D. probability within science, not some dive into religion to look for answers to those questions, because I've done that: and do not have any real data to examine.

Edited by tesla, : added word:set


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Taq, posted 11-15-2012 1:45 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Taq, posted 11-15-2012 5:46 PM tesla has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2282 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 71 of 285 (679777)
11-15-2012 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Taq
11-15-2012 5:15 PM


Re: The path of research…What needs to be known first??
Of course, since leaving the atmosphere was part of landing a man on the moon. They also tested specific hypotheses that were directly related to the question of whether or not they could land a man on the moon.

And in testing a hypothesis that consciousness is simply a response to an algorithm associated with the bodies needs for survival can be tested to find out whether or not there is actually some outside influence on consciousness and how it works.

You could also find the same data testing the hypothesis that there is an outside influence on consciousness besides just the body and direct experience of the individual.

Same data, same method of research needed: different approach in the question.

In the end both questions will aid in the understanding of consciousness and shed light on many questions.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Taq, posted 11-15-2012 5:15 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2282 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 72 of 285 (679778)
11-15-2012 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Taq
11-15-2012 1:48 PM


Re: Human brain part of the world we live in? of course it is silly.
We didn't need any of these things to determine that life evolved.

The question in I.D. isn't that life evolves. The question is was it designed to evolve.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Taq, posted 11-15-2012 1:48 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by Taq, posted 11-15-2012 5:48 PM tesla has responded

  
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