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Author Topic:   The $5,000,000 ID Research Challenge
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 285 (671845)
08-30-2012 9:20 PM


Keep your money in your pocket. No takers.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/04/weekinreview/04good.html

quote:
The Templeton Foundation, a major supporter of projects seeking to reconcile science and religion, says that after providing a few grants for conferences and courses to debate intelligent design, they asked proponents to submit proposals for actual research.

"They never came in," said Charles L. Harper Jr., senior vice president at the Templeton Foundation, who said that while he was skeptical from the beginning, other foundation officials were initially intrigued and later grew disillusioned.

"From the point of view of rigor and intellectual seriousness, the intelligent design people don't come out very well in our world of scientific review," he said.



Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

“Choose silence of all virtues, for by it you hear other men's imperfections, and conceal your own.” George Bernard Shaw


Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-30-2012 9:39 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 285 (671851)
08-30-2012 10:02 PM


Biologics Institute
The Biologic Institute lists a number of areas in which they intend to do research in support of ID.

http://www.biologicinstitute.org/research/


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

“Choose silence of all virtues, for by it you hear other men's imperfections, and conceal your own.” George Bernard Shaw


Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-30-2012 10:19 PM NoNukes has responded
 Message 15 by Taq, posted 08-31-2012 12:43 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 285 (671875)
08-31-2012 1:04 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Dr Adequate
08-30-2012 10:19 PM


Re: Biologics Institute
It's not clear whether they mean real research or just writing nonsense about research done by real scientists.

No, we don't know. But regardless of what DI/BI will actually do, we might ask the question as to whether any apparently viable research paths are identified that might constitute science.

For example, I am highly skeptical that any analysis of human designs of machines will be useful when applied to living things, and we have no way of checking any predictions that the research leads to. In fact any conclusions would have to involve circular logic that coms close to assuming the conclusion.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

“Choose silence of all virtues, for by it you hear other men's imperfections, and conceal your own.” George Bernard Shaw


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-30-2012 10:19 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 285 (678695)
11-09-2012 10:03 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by tesla
11-09-2012 8:59 PM


Re: spend it on space exploration/ Brain research.
That: for those who wish to research science and life to try to ascertain the truth; should target work done to understand consciousness and expand on that. Know the brain and energy transfers and recording methods and break the code of brain communication within itself.

So what would be wrong with a few billion worshipers of thier God doing what they have always done and seek God? Let them seek God with the greatest tools of mankind in understanding the world we inhabit. I believe that is the tools of science.

Please connect the dots. How would studying the brain and communication within the brain lead to an understanding of God? Why should we expect that studying the brain is going to lead to a greater understanding of the world we inhabit than directly studying the world we inhabit?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by tesla, posted 11-09-2012 8:59 PM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by tesla, posted 11-09-2012 10:34 PM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 49 of 285 (678710)
11-10-2012 12:25 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by tesla
11-09-2012 10:34 PM


Re: spend it on space exploration/ Brain research.
Are you suggesting the brain is not a direct part of the world we inhabit?

I am.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by tesla, posted 11-09-2012 10:34 PM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by tesla, posted 11-10-2012 9:00 AM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 51 of 285 (678787)
11-10-2012 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by tesla
11-10-2012 9:00 AM


Human brain part of the world we live in? Not so much.
he human brain is a very real part of the world we inhabit, in fact it is through that tool that every living species has the power to think, to feel, to investigate, and to remember. Without your brain, you would not know the world around you even existed.

Yes, that's mostly true. Except the part about every living species using a human brain. A closer to being correct statement our human brains are a part of us and we inhabit the world that we live in.

However, I don't expect it to be productive to study communications in a human brain in an attempt to learn how God created the universe, which is what your original post seemed to imply.

What I am asking you to do here is to link studying of the brain to anything remotely related to Intelligent Design of the universe. If instead you want to say studying the human brain will allow us to design things like prosthesis units, and to study human behavior, well 1) we already spend money on those things such that 5,000,000 dollars is a drop in the bucket, and 2) that spending is not on topic regardless of your attempts to equivocate on the meaning of ID.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by tesla, posted 11-10-2012 9:00 AM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by tesla, posted 11-10-2012 5:14 PM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 53 of 285 (678846)
11-10-2012 9:23 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by tesla
11-10-2012 5:14 PM


Re: Human brain part of the world we live in? Not so much.
You don't think about possibilities of consciousness? The reason to look to the brain for answers concerning intelligent design is because intelligence denotes consciousness, which as far as I know requires a brain. The more we understand that system of our world, the better chance we have of seeing if it is possible on larger scales.

So you are postulating an intelligent designer that has a brain based consciousness like ours or analogous to ours but on a larger scale? So we study our own brain processes and then we will understand the designer. Is that your proposal?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by tesla, posted 11-10-2012 5:14 PM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by tesla, posted 11-11-2012 8:16 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 59 of 285 (679511)
11-14-2012 6:28 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by tesla
11-13-2012 6:11 PM


Re: Human brain part of the world we live in? of course it is silly.
Could you repost your requirements...

There are about 60 messages in this thread. I think you should take time to puruse them. You can take the shortcut of reading only Taq's messages.

But the short answer is that you have not even addressed what was asked for in the original post (message 1).


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by tesla, posted 11-13-2012 6:11 PM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by tesla, posted 11-14-2012 10:33 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 140 of 285 (685797)
12-27-2012 9:07 AM
Reply to: Message 128 by tesla
12-22-2012 11:55 PM


Sigh.
Tesla writes:

See, your beating the dead horse, and I've already explained where to start looking, and that I am not educated enough in those fields to be designing such experiments.

Then you don't get the five million dollars, because you'd spend the entire amount trying to figure out how to spend five million more dollars.

The complaint that inspired the OP is that the Discovery Institute claims to be doing research into Intelligent Design, but appears to be doing nothing more than what you are doing, namely talking trash about where they want to look. Then you come along and do more of the same trash talking, but with even less specificity than we can find at DI's Biologics Institute.

I want the language of the brain understood to the point you can watch dreams on a screen, and even have a meter to show emotional feelings connected to the dream etc.

I think I saw one of those things on 'The Jetsons'.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by tesla, posted 12-22-2012 11:55 PM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by tesla, posted 12-27-2012 8:50 PM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 142 of 285 (685930)
12-28-2012 2:35 AM
Reply to: Message 141 by tesla
12-27-2012 8:50 PM


A little more direct...
See?

Yes I see what you've posted. But you've posted nothing that changes my mind. Perhaps an example of something from DI would be helpful here.

Once you get past the 'Perspectives' PR on the front page, uou can find the following discussion at the Biologics Institute webpage:

http://www.biologicinstitute.org/research

quote:
To address these questions, we are measuring the functional information in proteins by examining their ability to withstand sequence alterations. We are teaming up with mathematicians, like William Dembski, to examine the issue of fundamental constraints on search-based acquisition of information. And we are building and testing computational models that mimic the role of genetic information in specifying functions by means of structure-forming sequences.

So we have some idea of what DI would spend money on if they were really doing research. Or at least we would have an idea if "fundamental constraints on search based acquisition of information" wasn't just "poke and hope" (a phrase often used to describe my miserable aim on a pool table.) This is the kind of stuff that I and others are complaining about (well that and the fact we know the kind of malarkey some Dembski has produced in the past). In fact, these guys seem much like me at the pool table; talking much game -- pocketing very few balls.

Yet your proposals are even more sketchy. With the kind of hints you've given out, it would seem more productive to fund Wile E. and Acme than to give you the 5 million.

See?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by tesla, posted 12-27-2012 8:50 PM tesla has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 254 of 285 (735774)
08-24-2014 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 250 by mram10
08-23-2014 6:29 PM


Yawn...
mron10 writes:

How "simple" is the most simple organism? With the increase in knowledge and technology, we know that no life is simple.

Mram graces us with yet another weekend PRATT fest. Here we see Claim CB010.1 followed by CA202.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by mram10, posted 08-23-2014 6:29 PM mram10 has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 258 of 285 (735817)
08-25-2014 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by mram10
08-25-2014 7:14 PM


Re: more signs of willful ignorance
If you have proof that life started from elements with no help from an ID/God, please show me. Not theory, but proof.

No one can provide such proof. But it's not necessary to do that in order to show that Creationism is wrong. Creationism requires that human beings were formed directly from earth. The evidence that man evolved is enough to show that proposition to be wrong.

Abiogenesis is not even theory, it is at best a hypothesis. But evolution is fact.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by mram10, posted 08-25-2014 7:14 PM mram10 has not yet responded

  
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