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Author | Topic: The US Gov't is Guilty of Murder | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 704 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dogmafood writes:
How would they stop it? How is it possible that the world allows this? That isn't a rhetorical question. What steps would they take?
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ringo Member (Idle past 704 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dogmafood writes:
"Canada" doesn't control the flow of energy from Canada to the U.S. Even if the federal government was inclined to proclaim an embargo, it has little or no power to do so.
Canada alone could seriously mess with their energy supply not to mention their grass and maple syrup.
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ringo Member (Idle past 704 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
An invasion is complex, expensive and internationally controversial. A declaration of war is a diplomatic nicety with little connection to reality. A simple act of war is a useful compromise.
It hasn't invaded Pakistan, it hasn't declared war on Pakistan but it has used drones to kill people inside Pakistan.
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ringo Member (Idle past 704 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
When you're killing people, whether justifiably or not, a little hypocrisy is just icing on the cake.
I'm sure you are aware of the hypocracy exhibited by this behaviour.
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ringo Member (Idle past 704 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
The U.S. probably isn't going to be liked or admired internationally no matter what they do. It just makes sense to do things as efficiently as possible.
Sure, just don't expect to be admired or liked for it.
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ringo Member (Idle past 704 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
I'm not trying to rationalize anything. I'm just pointing out how silly all of the puffed-up outrage is. Shooting back may not be the best way to respond to terrorism but if they're going to do it, drones seem to be a better way than either of the alternatives that you mentioned.
Well that's a good way to rationalise any action I guess. "they hate us anyway, stuff it."
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ringo Member (Idle past 704 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dogmafood writes:
In a way, that's a good thing. There's no escaping across borders any more. If the Austro-Hungarians had had drones, World War One might have been averted.
-The battlefield is expanded to incorporate the whole world.
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ringo Member (Idle past 704 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dogmafood writes:
The goalposts seem to be sliding down a slippery slope.
The foul part is claiming that all of the evidence is secret and dismissing the collateral damage as a necessary price to pay.
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ringo Member (Idle past 704 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dogmafood writes:
In the OP, it was the innocent until proven guilty. Now it's collateral damage - not really the same thing.
I have always been talking about the innocent people that are getting killed.
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ringo Member (Idle past 704 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dogmafood writes:
You remind me of the line from Dr. Strangelove, "You can't fight here. This is the War Room." I have said repeatedly that I think we should stop allowing our armies to 'accidentally' kill people outside of any recognizable battlefield. Does this equate with disbanding our armies? I think your idea of fencing off the battlefields and plastering everywhere else with "No Fighting" signs is at least as silly as disbanding armies.
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ringo Member (Idle past 704 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
dronester writes:
Do any of them require playing only on designated battlefields?
But surely you don't also believe international laws, signed treaties, and the Geneva conventions silly?
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ringo Member (Idle past 704 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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dronester writes:
I believe that Bush Jr. and Tony Blair hate our freedoms because they're the ones that took them away.
Bush Jr. and Tony Blair said 9/11 happened because "the terrorists hate our freedoms". Is that what you believe?
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ringo Member (Idle past 704 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
dronester writes:
None of those appear to apply to drone attacks.
There are many rules of engagement. Not bombing a hospital. Not torturing children. Not using a disproportionate amount of force. Not causing collective punishment for the many because of only the few.
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ringo Member (Idle past 704 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
dronester writes:
One of the reasons for using drones is that they minimize the amount of force (as well as risk). The only way to use less force would be with snipers.
Not using a disproportionate amount of force... dronester writes:
If the collateral casualties typically outnumbered the targeted casualties, you might have a trivial mathematical point. On the other hand, if people come to understand that it's a bad idea to stand next to terrorists, that mght be a good thing.
... not causing collective punishment for the many because of only the few... dronester writes:
Oh, it's "harming" children now, is it? I responded to "torturing children". Nail down those wandering goalposts, please.
... nor not harming children? dronester writes:
That's been covered already in the thread.
Well, then how about just targeting civilians?
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ringo Member (Idle past 704 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
dronester writes:
You respond to me and then you go off on a tangent evading your own issue and you call me desperate? If you are desperate to score some kind of technical victory, I'll be happy to concede for you. Let's back up and try this again: I said to Dogmafood that painting out-of-bounds lines around battlefields is silly. You asked if I thought international law was silly. I said not unless it involves painting lines around battlefields. That's where you made a sharp turn and started regurgitating old news about rules of engagement. Now, do you have a point to make that's somewhat related to anything I've said?
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