Do We NEED God?

I have doubts. But they only come during depression, so I don't trust myself any more. The problem is, even when you see proof before your eyes, that doesn't matter if you are in a world of hurt. I also had a kind of breakdown last summer, and I am not sure I can ever recover from it. It's been a year now, and I've got to admit, it tends to erode faith.I would say in a way, I have to believe. I have enough personal proof, without that proof I would have to walk away,but also, I look at the things that have changed in my life, as it says we become "sanctified". I used to have a bad temper, and it literally does not exist now. I used to have a problem with lusts, for material goods and the usual kind, and that is pretty much gone now, mostly I walk in freedom. I used to curse a lot, but I don't know. I used to be very high strung, ready to pounce.You see it says we are being made more like Christ, it's the Holy Spirit that leads us into "all truth" and cleanses us from sin. I have also grown in wisdom. It just doesn't seem like these evidences should follow if there is no truth to the life of God.But if there is a glimmer of a chance that I am conning myself, no matter how the proof seems, I would want to know. I just want to know the truth, however painful, I am not against death, I've never had a problem with ending and when I am in depression, the thought of death even excites me, the atheist scenario, in that sense - has never bothered me because not existing is not new to me, because before 1981, I didn't exist for the whole time the universe did exist.Everyone with humility has to ask the question as to whether they are wrong. If I am somehow wrong, that would be a regret to me, for starters I would probably deeply regret fighting so hard against people like people at EvC. I could only say in my defense that if I was ultimately wrong about God, then the universe practically duped me, because when you speak in tongues, have the presence of God fall on you, and have your inner sins cleansed all just from believing, then if it is not true, then this is one bloody weird universe, or I am simply one very complex person. LolBut truth I suppose, it what matters most to me. Those experiences are all true, you can count on that, but even those things aren't enough sometimes, when you are in a dark place.P.S> It's a strange life, here is an example, during one depression I was swearing at God loudly because of pain, and I thought He would be mad, but I felt a peace come to me, that hovered there for about an hour. It's a bizarre experience to feel both angry and at peace, I guess it's like being warm except for having freezing cold feet. I can't explain it but it seems the Holy Spirit is always there. I also have red outlined scriptures, three of the most important are in Habbakuk, Numbers and Isaiah. Last month, on three nights, I asked for God to give me those scriptures to encourage me. He did, every time. I later tried to figure out the odds, I think it was 600 to 1 for each time. I know - just coincidences, but still amazing. For a test, I tried to open on thos scriptures again to see if I was duping myself. I tried to get it to opn on Number 23, I even AIMED at that page, I tried one hundred times to make it hit it, the closest I got was the page next to it. it's just very convincing, when you ask for one page, and *BAM* it opens on it, and there it is, outlined in red, the one thing you needed to hear to keep going, and hoping.Obviously in the past I have asked for the same thing, and it's happened hundreds of times. I could of course just be getting extremely lucky but why aren't I that lucky on the horses?

What a warped and frightening example of how the mind that is ignorant of God, must see things according to the folly of human reason. I am frankly amazed by what I am reading.Which is a prime example of why I was going to say that I do not accept your Pluralism, of, "if it works for you" type thing. There are people with VILE hearts, and no conscience, that clearly act out and feed their lusts to a point where they can't control them.This is why when I told you, the Holy Spirit has done a work in me, you done a very strange thing and COMPARED my experience to those living for their desires/happiness. Such "happiness" is beneath me, how can you even mention such a thing to me, when I have told you that I have suffered terribly. "For your sake we are killed all the day long" Those who have taken up their cross, are not living for some shallow, "happiness", we are not living for the TEMPORARY. " Do not fix your eyes on what is seen, for the things that are seen are temporary, but the things that are unseen, are eternal"Please note, a true comparison would be to show how bad the world can get, if we don't have the Holy Spirit. For me, my "desire" comes under, "normal male desire", as intended by the genetics God created. But my "lust" is a sin, that comes from unhealthily feeding desire in the wrong way. That desire has a purpose, but note that someone with an unhealthy desire for "happiness" is willing to INFLICT terrible pain on to someone else. This is called SIN. That you don't know that it is SIN, is frankly frightening to me. That you CONFLATE natural desire with sin, is also strange. It is clear that if there is an intended biological function, then anything apart from that function is a malfunction of some sort. (SIN)You make out that a vile person is somehow a victim of their own desire. That is not proven in the least. God has shown the intended purpose for sexual desire, anything else is a corruption of the sinful nature. But even those with perverse desires can have the Holy Spirit, to control them. I have known of homosexuals that are in Christ, and they agree with me, they agree that the original intention, in a sinful world, leads to many corruptions of our flesh. Even if you have those desires, you are right about one thing Stile, in your folly. You are right that people have a choice, and if they have a choice, then they are not forced to do terrible things, they chose to do them. It was good for their flesh, but I am telling you, there is a way out of all of that darkness, through Jesus Christ. It's a genuine way, otherwise it would not work. Nor is it pluralism, it is universal - anyone can accept Christ, and He "always" "works for them." what is clear is that the world on it's own, is a terrible place without Him, and rightfully so, for if it was a paradise without Him, then that would prove the world does not need a saviour. Imagine all of the suffering Bundy could have not inflicted if he had made the choice I have made, to not feed those lusts that corrupt? Can you imagine what someone else had to go through just to gratify his disgusting, violent and debased desires? That you could consider any of that "happiness" and propose that such "happiness" be valid in some manner, makes me almost want to scream at you, "BE SAVED!! Have your understanding enlightened! See the world for what it is, a terrible, terrible sinning ground."My desires are normal but that doesn't make me any different, if I have a desire to cheat with someone's wife or sleep around, that doesn't mean I am a victim, but first I had to indulge the lust, I chose to feed it.You see if Bundy had had the Holy Spirit, he wouldn't have indulged lust to the point of living out terrible fantasies. To even contemplate these lusts as "valid" means that your thinking Stile, has been terribly polluted by a sinful world. It is a very terrible sin, to commit violence for your own pleasure, it is debased, and shows just how far away people are, from God as indicated by your bizarre humanism that caters for evil.An experience of Christ is the opposite, we die to the world, die to sin, and are alive to God. Such people would never make that choice because of what John 1, says, that people "prefer" the darkness to the light. (paraphrase) That given a choice, most people would party hard and go to hell, than to choose an unselfish, and beautiful path of righteousness, to become all of those fruits of the spirit, that are harmless, such as gentleness, self control, patience, joy, love. People that love others in this way have a joy that makes them CRINGE at your philosophy of happiness, and utterly horrible, selfish way of living for yourself, and nothing else. Your very words show you have never known the love of God, such "happiness" is a very empty prospect. Loving people and denying self is the key to true and righteous happiness, and you need to know it in a quick fire hurry!!!Notice that the key problem in this scenario, was the sin of lust. Those born again, have known how such problems can be dealt with and utterly wiped out. But you recommend folly - that a person should "do what works for them" (paraphrasing you).No, people should not do what works for them, because it leads to a very disgusting world and an induction of sin, off the scale.That is now the horrible place we live in, because of the choice people make to indulge their sinful nature. In the end everyone must give an account for what they did while in the body, and they will face justice. They think they get away with it because physically, God does not restrain them. They are wrong. Those that know the truth know that they will answer for every vile crime.There are probably atheists now, reading this, knowing they have horrible passions, and their consciences are convicting them as they read my words. To them I would say, forgiveness is available, and escape is available. You can know the power of the Holy Spirit in your life, as can anyone. You can escape the corruption of selfish desires, by knowing Christ, and the power He can give you, to set you free from sin.(I genuinely don't mean this as an attack on you Stile, I was just very, very surprised by the level of ignorance you have. My initial post you could only see as relevant to "happiness" and I will in all honesty be praying that the veil of deceit be removed from your clearly blinded heart. Blind to sin, blind to the terribleness of a world without the love of God. I hope you can one day taste of that unselfish love, that you are so ignorant of. God bless you mightily!)Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.

Sorry Stile, my original post in this thread is mis-representative of true Christianity. It was written informally, conversationally. This is a debate board, I should have known better, but I was "relaxed" because we are in the F+B forum where things seem more conversational. Also I was in a moment of negativity and might have made it seem like I doubted God's existence or doubted my own faith in that kind of capacity.Actually what I go through is the kind of "doubt" so to speak, that is more of a "regret" you might say, in that when you choose a path in life, and that path becomes immensely hard, you can want to get off that path at times.I would also point out one thing to you. Logically, people can know things are true and not be able to prove them.I am correct because if I am on trial for murder, and I know I am innocent, it does not matter how badly I want to prove my innocence, the presentation of my case for objective scrutiny, will be insufficient. The people will treat me objectively but they will still remain ignorant of the truth no matter how objectively their evaluation is. Like with your counter-reponse. Now imagine I presented evidence for my innocence, and you said, "maybe, maybe not." or, "could be, could not be". That is true, and it is also objective, but it shows how objectivity does not equal correctness. You are objective, but you are ignorant.This is also the case if you are born again, for reasons the bible expounds. I would have to quote too many scriptures, and find them all, but Jesus Himself said that to see the Kingdom of God you must first be born again in order to even see it. We are also told that God "sees the heart" and rejects certain people when He sees what their heart is like. He knows every motive. You see Stile, it is literally impossible for me to prove to you what I know when Christ Himself says He witholds spiritual knowledge, and only reveals the Father "to whom He will." If I cannot even prove there is a spiritual world, how can I prove a spiritual life to someone? Won't everything I say come across as black and white, in a black and white world? How do I prove a world of colour if nobody believes it exists? So my post to you was conversational, there are no "maybes" when you have been born again, you only "doubt" when you are going through bad times and simply want out. But also please note, you are not in a position to say that the life of God could or could not be true, unless you are saying that with the evidence you have, that is the conclusion you are reaching. In that case you are being fair and objective, in that you, as an objective person, as you clearly are, can only conclude so much, given your ignorance. If that's your motive, that's fair enough, given you are so limited, and my post was so insufficient. I wouldn't expect an evaluation from you anyway given my information was so sloppy.People would not pay millions on justice-systems, if they created a device that could remove knowledge from the criminal's brain, which PROVES you can have genuine knowledge that something is true, without being able to prove it objectively. There are many people that have been executed, that stated they were innocent, and were indeed innocent.When I said, "if I somehow duped myself", I was just being hyper-fair, I already know that I can't have duped myself but I become irrational when I am in depression, and all "light" leaves me, all positivity goes, I can't describe that to a person that has not been in it, like you.It would be like a person that knows they saw something clearly happen, then questioning it in their own mind because when they went to trial, they were undergoing stress. It's a cop-out, it's a psychological way of relieving yourself of the responsibility when things get tough. "Did I really see him commit that crime, I suppose my memory could have duped me, objectively speaking.", when you know exactly what you saw!!! (Cognitive dissonance)(Please note I am not attacking you in this post when I use the term, "ignorant", it is just a reality that can't be helped. Spiritually, you ARE ignorant, because God only reveals the truth His own way, and we know that those that are not born again, are purposefully blinded until they make the decision to believe and repent.)