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Author | Topic: Do We NEED God? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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Genologist writes: You can go through this life "apparently" quite fine as an atheist, I don't even think you need God to fulfill certain goals, indeed there are several examples of atheists who on the surface acheive a lot, Christians believe that "they that build the house without the Lord labour in vain" (Psalm 127:1), we have all done stuff in vain when we do not include God in our plans.- The truth for a Christian is that to each (everybody, even athiests) is given a measure of faith. It is what we do with that faith that counts. Faith is like a muscle with the genetic potential to grow really big, we must "exercise" it ie sincerely and persistently seek after the truth with an open heart. Conversely if we don't our spirits will remain dormant and in a state of "atrophy". So in short you don't strictly need God in this life, but you may never achieve fulfilment or your real purpose, therefore you are always empty, always wanting. Of course atheists will hotly dispute this so your question is loaded . Despite apologising in another thread for the calumny of suggesting that we atheists do moral things only for selfish reasons, you now write this rubbish telling me that I'm spiritually "empty, always wanting"; that my spirit is in a state of atrophy and that my achievements are superficial. You sir, are an offensive bigot, hiding your prejudice behind what you call a faith but what real Christians wouldn't recognise as such. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Phat writes: Lets try this again.My belief, of course is that God created all things. No he didn't
In Him is life and that life is the light of men. No it's not
Hence, all logic, reason and reality are filtered through Him. No it's not
Critics would disagree, saying that God is within my imagination. My belief is that you all are part of His imagination, and thus we go round and round. Well yes, of course. That's because we all know what you believe because you keep telling us. We only go round and round because...
The evidence does not validate my claims. ....and
You may say that you are doing just fine without Him. Obviously I AM doing just fine without him.
(You wanna be left alone) We are left alone.
Now that we have all of that cleared up, what shall we discuss next? Something that is not just you telling us what you believe without a scrap of evidence and that can't be adequately countered with the statement "no it's not". Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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Phat writes: There is only one I AM. The lie would tell you "no there isn't". If I could work out what that meant, I'm pretty sure I could just say 'no there isn't'. But As I can't.....Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
NoNukes writes: Because being omnipotent does not necessarily mean you can be in two places at once? Ah, the lessor god. Very human.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Phat writes: My argument is that though God by definition would be fully capable of micromanaging everything, to interfere would disrupt the original plan. What plan? If this is a plan, I'm a goldfish.
After all, if God were going to interfere, why not start with Satan? Stop the evil at its source. Well - going with the childish fiction here - why not? What do you think this god of yours is doing with us Phat? Is he just having a laugh, experimenting, what? Is he playing with us? Are we his pets? Why would a god do what he's done here? Does it make any sense to you?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
NoNukes writes:
There are as many views of what a fictional god's power is as there are people prepared to speak of it. You can fabricate any scenario to suit any belief sytem can't you?
Not exactly. There is a popular, but not Biblical supportable view of what God's power is. It is the cartoon view of God that leads to questions such as "Can God make a rock so big he cannot lift it". Well if god can do anything, he can enjoy word games too I guess.
On the other hand, the Bible says some specific things about the nature of Gods power. I'm sure it does. But what the masses are taught is that god is all powerful and everywhere. And if you're going to worship a god, that seems the sort of god you're going to invent.
But hey, have your fun. Ok.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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Phat writes: It would depress me to be an atheist. I found it totally liberating. A huge weight lifted, all that biblical bollox gone. No all-seeing sky-daddy waiting to catch you out. All that wasted time....
I can't imagine there being no God...He is the only one I can count on who will never let me down. Given the state you've been in for years, economically and mentally, he's doing a piss-poor job of 'never letting you down'. For god's sake man, kick away the crutch, it's giving you a terrible limp.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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Phat writes: the future looks bleak though. WE struggle. We die. We cease to exist. Correct. That's the system that your god set up for us. Lovely guy huh? This is the system that religion can not explain but biology can. This is why your god had to be invented, we think we are more important than a bacteria a pot plant and a chimp. Biology tells us that we're not.
quote: Hope for what? Life is what it is, we can cherish it for what it is while we have it and try to make our time here worthwhile or we can sink into a slough of despond and moan about it. The fanciful belief in imaginary after-lives so long as you worship the correct superstition is luckily fading. The sooner we drop this baloney the sooner we can start making lives better for everyone in the short time that they're here.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
NoNukes writes: Well, guess what. It is literally impossible to create a star that can last forever. That's not what people are taught by religions about their God is it? Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Jar writes: That depends on who is doing the teaching. There are some really bad teachers out there particularly when it comes to stuff like religion. There are bad teachers, probably mostly bad teachers as people are free to make up what they like about religious belief and do it regularly. But god being everywhere and able to do anything is universally taught by Christianity. It's fundamental. Anything less is this very modern idea of a 'lessor god' which is a necessary reaction by intelligent believers to scientific discovery. It just demonstrates the elasticity of belief. Ironically, it evolves. But even so, omnipotence etc is still what the vast majoty of proles are taught and believe. Possibly for another thread but it shocked me that at university I shared a flat with a theology student and she explained how very few of the traditional beliefs taught to the proles are actually shared by those that teach them.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Jar writes: But that is simply not correct. If you read the Bible stories themselves you find that the Gods depicted in those stories are not everywhere and able to do anything. What? You think there's some connection between what the major Christian religions teach the unwashed and what might be written at any point in the bible? Come on. Omnipresence, omnipotence and pretty much omnieverything is the definition of a proper god.
What you claim is universally taught by Christianity is simply not the case. Well i beg to differ.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Jar writes: No, I am saying that Christian education is not a monolithic entity. I am the product of a Christian education in Christian schools that is part of a major Christian denomination where it was pointed out that that according to the Bible stories themselves the authors believed that God was not omnipresence, omnipotence and pretty much omnieverything. Well, I can't speak for every Christian everywhere - they make up the most bizarre things, hence the tens of thousands of sects - but I'm prepared to bet that the vasy majority believe in and were taught the omni-god. The one that’s all powerful, can do anything and is everywhere simultaneously, watching and listening in.
quote: Attributes of God in Christianity - WikipediaJe suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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