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Author Topic:   Immorality of Homosexuality
LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 5083 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 53 of 218 (410998)
07-18-2007 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by nator
04-18-2007 7:34 PM


Re: Homosexuality vs Drugs
the large majority of pedophiles are straight men
are not the large majority of men as a whole straight, and therefore would make up the bulk of the population of male criminals in any type of criminal act?
Majority of murderers= straigt men?
majority of thieves=straight men?
majority of poachers=straight men?
majority of enron bad guys=straight men?
etc, etc,...
whether homosexuality leads to pedophilia or not (i have doubts about that though), your far far more likely to see straight pedophiles not due to some supposed and unproven "inherent depravity of straight men" , but because they far outnumber gay men.

"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by nator, posted 04-18-2007 7:34 PM nator has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Taz, posted 07-18-2007 1:01 PM LudoRephaim has replied
 Message 57 by PaulK, posted 07-18-2007 1:31 PM LudoRephaim has replied

LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 5083 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 55 of 218 (411002)
07-18-2007 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Nuggin
04-17-2007 5:36 PM


sufferin suckatash!
why is Homosexuality immoral?
outside the Bible, you probably wont find a reason, because youre arguing from a different foundation of morality.
and indeed, if one cannot post a study saying that homosexuality is dangerous and leads to mental illness (many here have tried, like myself), you cannot prove that to you and others here from youre point of view. Try finding a study showing that idol worship is bad for your health, or that working on sunday is bad for your health, or that sorcery leads to bad health, or necromancy, beastiality, adultery, taking God's name in vain, cruelty to animals, etc is very bad for your health.
to show i another way, let rephrase your op
Why is idol worship immoral
or
Why is Sorcery Immoral?
or (and this might be a good topic to start as well...hint hint HINT!)
why is Adultery immoral?
or
Why is saying God's name in vain immoral?
(let alone why atheists say GD when they dont believe in him. Why not "Daffy Duck Dammit!"? Course, that's also off topic. easy to do on EVC!)
and then;
I understand that "the Bible says so". The Bible also says dont cut your beard.
(that is true, the Bible says in the Torah (if My memory serves well) not to cut you beard, a ceremonial law as opposed to civil and moral law. I could argue that it is not in fore anymoore, but that would be off topic.)
But do you understand the pointlessness or arguing this? Were on two different wavelengths here. You say potato, I say potaato, you say tomato, I say TomAto? I'm from mars, you from venus? I'm from Neptune, you from...Mercury (hehehe). I go by one moral foundation (Bible) you go by a different one. It's the equivalent of a Chicago bears fan arguing to a Dallas Cowboy fan that the Bears are the best (and they are!). Both have lost the debate before it starts.
Hope this a helps
Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.

"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Nuggin, posted 04-17-2007 5:36 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Nuggin, posted 07-18-2007 2:54 PM LudoRephaim has replied

LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 5083 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 56 of 218 (411006)
07-18-2007 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Taz
07-18-2007 1:01 PM


Re: Homosexuality vs Drugs
wow! I got a fast reponse this time!!!
.5-30%? Probably somewhere n' between that number. I doubt that gay men make up the majority of the male population in the United states or the world for that matter, or even half or near as such. and even up to 30%, that still leads up to 70% of men being straight. that's a big difference in numbers.
then bisexuals and asexuals (people who have no sexual drive at all) have to be considered, and are no doubt far, far fewer than gay or straight men.
which still leads up to the conclusion that straight men make up the mahjority of the criminal male population because they are in the vast majority period.
Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.

"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Taz, posted 07-18-2007 1:01 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Taz, posted 07-18-2007 5:18 PM LudoRephaim has not replied

LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 5083 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 58 of 218 (411009)
07-18-2007 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by PaulK
07-18-2007 1:31 PM


Re: Homosexuality vs Drugs
as far as i can see, nobody's suggested any "inherent depravity of straight men"-it certainly isnt in the post you're replied to
Hello paulk.
I thought it could have been in between the lines as a comeback. I didn't know for sure.
if homosexuals where 10% of the population and ten times more likely to be pedophiles than straight men, pedophiles should be equally split between straights and gays.
If the above was true, yes, but the above is not true (name a peer reviewed study showing that gay men are ten times more likely to rape children)and therefore is irrelevant. Even if they where 5 times more likely to be pedophiles, straight pedophiles would outnumber them still due to the sheer numbers of straight men (though in relative terms things would be different). If only ten percent of the male population was actually straight and the rest gay, then gays would have more pedophiles than straights. And where did a you det 10 percent of the population??
Unless you show that gay men are ten times more likely to rape children than straights (let alone 9-6 times more likely), the point still stands.

"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by PaulK, posted 07-18-2007 1:31 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by PaulK, posted 07-18-2007 1:49 PM LudoRephaim has replied

LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 5083 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 60 of 218 (411014)
07-18-2007 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by PaulK
07-18-2007 1:49 PM


Re: Homosexuality vs Drugs
ten percent is an often quoted number-i dont know if it is correct or not but it seemed good enough to use as a hypothetical.
Okeedokee.
nstead I am pointing out that if the claim that gays were more inclined to pedophilia we cannot be certain that the majority of pedophiles would be straights. It depends on the numbers.
Yes, thats right. Women outnumber men, yet women are less likely to be pedophiles or bank robbers or serial killers than men. But if you knew the numbers of gay/straight ratio in men and the overall likelyhood of a gay or straight guy being a pedophile, then you could know for certain what the majority of pedophiles would be. But without evidence showing that one is more likely than the other to rape children, and since gays are in the minority by a large shot, then it must be conclcuded that, unless evidence comes to the contrary, straights make up the majority of the male criminal population, and therefore the majority of pedophiles.
There should be statistics on these matters. "to catch a predator" had a majority of straight predatos than gay ones, but they where there.

"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by PaulK, posted 07-18-2007 1:49 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by PaulK, posted 07-18-2007 2:51 PM LudoRephaim has replied

LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 5083 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 61 of 218 (411015)
07-18-2007 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by PaulK
07-18-2007 1:49 PM


offatopica?
I hope we are not getting off topic with whether gays or staights make up the majority of pedophiles.

"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by PaulK, posted 07-18-2007 1:49 PM PaulK has not replied

LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 5083 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 65 of 218 (411043)
07-18-2007 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by PaulK
07-18-2007 2:51 PM


Re: Homosexuality vs Drugs
Im not sure I understand you; are you debating against the proposed idea that Homosexuality leads to pedophilia? I myself dont believe that it does, anymore than those whose sexual preferences lean towards fat people or pregnant women. I dont approve of Homosexuality, but we would be arguing from differet worlds on that issue.
in the argument it'self, if it where proven beyond reproof that homosexuality leads to pedophilia, the yes they should make up a big chunk of pedophiles. If the vast majority are straight, then the idea that Homosexuality leads to pedophilia is indeed brought into question. But if the latter where true, it wouldn't prove that heterosexuality leads to pedophilia, only that since straights make up the vast majority of men, and since homosexuality does not lead to pedophilia, that straights would therefore make up the majority of pedophiles, along with murderers, adulterers, embezzilers, rapists, tearers of pillow tags, etc.
Has anyone here brought forth statistics as to who makes up the vast majority of pedophiles, or links about whether homosesuality leads to pedophilia or not?

"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by PaulK, posted 07-18-2007 2:51 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by PaulK, posted 07-18-2007 4:58 PM LudoRephaim has replied

LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 5083 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 68 of 218 (411049)
07-18-2007 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Nuggin
07-18-2007 2:54 PM


Beating a Shire horse
The fundies are running presidential campaigns on the issue of Gay Marraige. Sates are not flocking in droves to pass ammendments to teir constitutions to prevent Idol worship.
No, but if you want to force Churches to worship idols (as opposed to forcing Churches to marry gay couples), put idol worship on numerous movies and TV shows showing it in a good light (and those against it as evil madmen bent on Idol worshiper's downfalls and deaths), have numerous parades about "idol worship pride" and show them on the news, promote it as okay on talk shows, want to criminalize preachers who speak out against it (as some leftos would want for pastors who preach out against homosexuality)and keep it a hot issue on the media and...well...forums like this, all together I might see why numerous people would flock to the gates of elections and be seen as bigots against idol worshippers by the left.
The point is, since there is absolutely no foundation for this extreme bias against a prticular group of American citizens, why is this suc an active issue?
Because the foundation for it is real, but religious. Christianity isn't the only religion that goes against homosexuality; Muslims and some groups within Judaism do too. They dont want their children to be taught by their school teacher that it is okay to be gay or bisexual and therefore give into urges in that area of sexuality. They dont want that kind of "tolerance" forced down their throats, nor their children's throats. They dont want gay parades in their towns and gay marraiges in their Churches and synagogues and mosques. They are not going to have it, and you and all the other lefts, gays and atheists and politicians are not going to force it on them.
It comes down to Fundamentalists being bigots and holding up the Bible to try to justify their bigotry.
...as opposed to Atheists condemning all who are religious as ignoramuses and holding up pink invisible unicorns to show the strength of their logical analysis? Bigotry works both ways.
Of course I already tried to show that this debate was over before it started. Even if one shows evidence based on scientific analysis that Homosexuality is damaging to the individual person or another shows evidence supported by science to show the opposite, they wont be believed anyway. You're beating a dead horse.
BTW: I posted some stuff on the Bigfoot thread. Maybe you should have a look at them...

"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Nuggin, posted 07-18-2007 2:54 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by Nuggin, posted 07-18-2007 8:25 PM LudoRephaim has replied
 Message 77 by jar, posted 07-19-2007 12:03 AM LudoRephaim has not replied
 Message 85 by nator, posted 07-19-2007 7:33 PM LudoRephaim has not replied

LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 5083 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 70 of 218 (411055)
07-18-2007 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by PaulK
07-18-2007 4:58 PM


gays vs Pedophiles; film at 11
well, i understand fully now, but why go on over an argument that is false? Even if Homosexuality leads to pedophilia yet the majority of pedophiles are straight, what does that prove? where are you going with this? Are you saying that heterosexuality leads to pedophilia far more than homosexulity leads to it? It would seem that the way you argue against that theory, that it simply just disproves the idea that Homosexuality leads to pedophilia and nothing more.
In order to prove that on average you would have a far greater chance of being or becoming a pedophile if you are gay or are straight or that the majority of pedophiles are straight or gay, you need more than just argument. You need facts. It's not like the OP; evidence would be evidence, as opposed to whether homosexuality is and of it'self wrong morally, in which evidence might be worthless given the skepticism both sides would have. One's psycology, the other is religion and morality.
Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.

"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by PaulK, posted 07-18-2007 4:58 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by PaulK, posted 07-18-2007 5:18 PM LudoRephaim has not replied

LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 5083 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 79 of 218 (411204)
07-19-2007 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by Taz
07-18-2007 7:04 PM


patience?? T-i-me
NO no, Tazz. Patience and TIME. I dont hav a lot of either to read a long article such as that on that particular subject, but it sounds reasonable and logical, so i'll take it mostly as Factual.

"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Taz, posted 07-18-2007 7:04 PM Taz has not replied

LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 5083 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 82 of 218 (411212)
07-19-2007 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Nuggin
07-18-2007 8:25 PM


Burp
No one is forcing Churches to do ANYTHING.
Not yet. Nore synagogues or Mosques, but you'll never bring those up on this topic. Always the churches...
This is so blatantly false as to be laughable.
Like your OP.
If you justify bigotry against homosexuals because "the Bible says so" then you must also accept slavery and all the other crap that comes with it.
Oh the Bibe does have slavery rules and regulations for both slaves and slave masters, both Old and New Testament. It also has harsh words for slave traders as well, even going as far as proclaiming it not sound to true doctrine and even predicting end time judgement for such as these (1 Timothy 1:8-11, Rev 18:1-13), but of course I wont hear those passages from the likes of you anytime soon, and you'll simply ignore passages about the fulfillment of the law or following the whole torah in terms of civil and ceremonial laws (Matt 5:17-20, John 8:1-11, Acts 15:5, 19-21, 28-29,) and show you've never had any cllege course in these here subjects. Gotta be nit pick! Just and observation...(and this is off topic anyway. Read forum guidelines!!)
If by condemn you mean observe, then yes.
Well, it's not an observation that most atheists are self righteous jerks, but the truth. Wanna keep mud slinging?
Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.

"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Nuggin, posted 07-18-2007 8:25 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by Nuggin, posted 07-19-2007 6:14 PM LudoRephaim has replied

LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 5083 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 83 of 218 (411245)
07-19-2007 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Nuggin
07-18-2007 8:25 PM


look, if you want to convince someone who differs from you that you are correct, thrash talk isn't going to help but hurt your cause. And its a dead cause; your not going to convince but a few over whether homosexuality is morally wrong or not, no matter how hard you try. And despite the heatedness, it's not that good of a topic try something new. Whattabout steroid use and sports entertainment? wrong or right to use steroids?? Homosexuality and morals has been done to death. The Bigfoot thread was excellent.
trust me, you and i lost at the moment we first posted about this.

"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Nuggin, posted 07-18-2007 8:25 PM Nuggin has not replied

LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 5083 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 100 of 218 (413054)
07-27-2007 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by Nuggin
07-19-2007 6:14 PM


Re: Burp
The Implication here that i'm a Bigot for NOT including other religeons in my REPLY to your statement which DIDNT INCLUDE THE OTHER RELIGEONS.
Are not some Jews and Muslims against Gay Marraige? You deny this?
Oh, you spelt Religion wrong.
Come on, you and I both know that the RIGHT has a strangle hold on RIGHTeousness. It's IN the word!
Wow, I must have hit a nerve there nancy!
BTW, I like how you simply disregard my original post without grasping the point of the original post at all.
I already regarded your OP in several posts. I kept trying to ram in your head that it is a DEAD issue. You disregard what I say without understanding MY point.
Cutting of Beards, touching of pigs, etc
I already addressed the ceremonial/civil laws of the Torah in an post here. wont work.
Maybe you should bring up things that go against moral law, such as WORSHIPPING OTHER GODS. Maybe thou would havest a pointeth?
Are we to go back to the Bronze age and start burning Cattle in the Cathedrals of our major cities so that God can be pleased by the smoke?
um, you do know that Christianity came about in the Iron age? And subsequently Cathedrals afterwards...
we Disregard the Religious bigotry and superstitions of the past.
Yet you are bigoted towards the religious now. You already attacked the intelligence of religious people without regarding those of religion who where very intelligent and or wise. Martin Luther King, Isaac Newton, Robert Bakker, Al Gore, Alexander the Great, etc. (and I bet you or another evie will bring up the religious bad guys (Hitler) as a response. Pathetic)
Further, why haven't you address the fact that the leaders of your cause all turn out to be either homosexuals or the parents of homosexuals?
Oh really? Jerry Falwell and Patty Robertson (as if they are the leaders of my "cause". I differ with them no doubt on several Biblical matters, definitely on Global warming)are gay or have gay children? Grandchildren? Rick Warren and Joel Osteen are gay or have gay children? Have you ever seen Joel's wife (RRarrr!)? Good ol' Billy Graham is queer or have queer children?? Evidence please? Someone besides Ted Haggard and others that it has been PROVED BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT or ABSOLUTLY PROVEN are gay or have gay offspring??
Maybe those of YUR cause are closet Fundies or have children/parents that are fundies?
If you want to continue to debate this, go ahead. Im SURE you and your "allies" will nit pick and thrash this post (oh Goody I think I made a smarty!!), and I wont continue to debate this with you, becasue you cant. It's like debating a flat earther, seriously.
Continue youre march to beating a dead horse.
Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.

"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Nuggin, posted 07-19-2007 6:14 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Nuggin, posted 07-27-2007 2:01 PM LudoRephaim has not replied

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