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Author | Topic: A Proposed Proof That The Origin of The Universe Cannot Be Scientifically Explained | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member (Idle past 102 days) Posts: 7051 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: |
That would make it non-random.
No it would be produced infinite times. I don't think you understand what the words random and infinite mean. I suggest a basic primer on probability too. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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nano Member (Idle past 75 days) Posts: 110 Joined: |
An interesting (perhaps) follow-up:
Neil deGrasse Tyson was interviewed in the January 2013 issue of Sky magazine. He was asked "What was around before the Big Bang?". He answered "We don't know. That's the answer. We have some strong ideas but they're not elevated to the level of theory yet. But one of them is that we might be one bubble of many bubbles in a multiverse. The multiverse would have been around before we were born in it, but that just pushes it farther back. Where'd the multiverse come from?..." I don't think scientists talk enough about this logical dilemma. For instance, Stephen Hawking spoke at CalTech in April 2013. From what I can gather, he essentially said he favored the multiverse explanation of where the universe came from, but (as far as I can tell, I don't have the text) he did not go further and discuss where the multiverse came from. FYI - The quote from Neil deGrasse Tyson is impossible to find online. I can post a scan (if allowed) from the physical magazine if anyone is interested.
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jar Member Posts: 33175 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 4.5 |
But there is no logical dilemma.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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ICANT Member Posts: 6396 From: SSC Joined: |
Hi nano,
I would like to take this 1 step further. There has always been existence or existence had a beginning to exist. Existence= the universe and everything in it including any multiverses or superverse. In other words everything that exists or has existed. What is the opposite of existence? Non-existence is the opposite of existence.
Sure it can be explained, every time I ask what existed at T=0 I get the answer, "We don't know". You say, but that is not a scientific explanation. Well that is the answer I get from scientist. God Bless, "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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Coyote Member (Idle past 889 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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Beats making stuff up. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
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nano Member (Idle past 75 days) Posts: 110 Joined: |
Sorry, I should have been more clear. I wholeheartedly support Tyson's statement of "We don't know" and "..but that just pushes it farther back". This is the kind if refreshing talk about the beginning of the universe that I don't see enough of from scientists.
Maybe I am projecting too much onto Tyson's statement here, but I believe when he says "..but that just pushes it farther back" he is clearly referring to the logical "problem" of the beginning of the universe. It simply can't be explained logically. That is why he says "We don't know".
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JonF Member Posts: 6171 Joined:
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No, he says we don't know because we don't know. We may never know. Bu that does not mean that it cannot be explained logically. We don't know whether or not it can be explained logically, although many scientists suspect that it can.
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vimesey Member Posts: 1215 From: Birmingham, England Joined: Member Rating: 5.8 |
The biggest problem anyone has, in approaching what can loosely be called "the origin of the universe" from a "logical" perspective, rather than a physics / mathematical perspective, is that it is really hard to get day to day "logical" thinking around the fact that the big bang actually created time. The concept of "before" the big bang is meaningless - like further north than the north pole.
And when you accept that, all day to day "logical" thinking of cause and effect goes out the window (in relation to the singularity at the heart of the big bang, anyway). There is some theorizing being done, at the cutting edge of physics, which might provide the shape of an answer - but saying it doesn't make logical sense is, I'm afraid, meaningless. The universe doesn't give a stuff about our "logic". And it may just be, that the answer to "why does the universe exist" is "why not ?" Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
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nano Member (Idle past 75 days) Posts: 110 Joined: |
It's certainly, at the very least, a current issue to be solved, otherwise Tyson would not say "We don't know" and "Where'd the multiverse come from?".
And even without time its always appropriate to ask why the universe exists.
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onifre Member (Idle past 1734 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Well "we don't know" isn't an explanation. It's an honest answer to the question. Because, science tends to be very cautious when it says "we know". Of course there are countless smarty pants working on the answer so it's likely we will eventually know for sure.
How can saying "I don't know" be an explanation? - Oni
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