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Author Topic:   About New Lamarckian Synthesis Theory
jar
Member
Posts: 33899
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 16 of 264 (674649)
10-01-2012 12:14 PM


If the evironment is causing ...
If the environment was actually causing as opposed to filtering changes then the same changes should show up in all of a population living in the same environment; however evidence refutes that position.

As was pointed out in Message 57:

quote:
There is a population of mice.

The mice have baby mice.

Not all the copies are perfect, some have mutations.

Some baby mice are tan.

Some baby mice are dark gray.

Some baby mice are bright pink with yellow and green stripes.

The baby mice that are tan go out to eat and play. Those that stay on the tan rocks find lots of food and have fun playing. They grow up and marry the mouse next door and have lots of pretty tan baby mice.

Those that play on the dark gray rock though get eaten by predators and don't get to play or have fun or grow up to marry the mouse next door and have lots of pretty tan baby mice.

The baby mice that are dark gray go out to eat and play. Those that stay on the dark gray rocks find lots of food and have fun playing. They grow up and marry the mouse next door and have lots of pretty dark gray baby mice.

Those that play on the tan rock though get eaten by predators and don't get to play or have fun or grow up to marry the mouse next door and have lots of pretty dark gray baby mice.

The baby mice that are bright pink with yellow and green stripes go out to eat and play. They get eaten.

Soon there are two populations of mice, tan mice and dark gray mice and bad little mice are told, "If you do that again you will turn pink with yellow and green stripes and get eaten! And it will make you go blind too!".


It is a matter of filtering, not causation. The mutations continue and there will still be dark gray and tan mice born that will be filtered by the environment.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by zi ko, posted 10-02-2012 12:46 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33899
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 27 of 264 (674724)
10-02-2012 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by zi ko
10-02-2012 12:46 AM


Re: If the evironment is causing ...

jar writes:

Not all the copies are perfect, some have mutations.

I agree with the rest. But what would you say if add: ... mutations that are guided by environment? How can you exclude this scenario? Just by saying that 'all scientists believe so'? You must have evidence for it to say so.

If you said that I would laugh, laugh loudly and heartily. And I presented the evidence and and you even quoted part of my evidence. But did you actually read it?

If the environment was actually causing as opposed to filtering changes then the same changes should show up in all of a population living in the same environment; however evidence refutes that position.

Environment is never the same for different members.

Nonsense, utter nonsense.

Let me repeat the example for you.

quote:
There is a population of mice.

The mice have baby mice.

Not all the copies are perfect, some have mutations.

Some baby mice are tan.

Some baby mice are dark gray.

Some baby mice are bright pink with yellow and green stripes.

The baby mice that are tan go out to eat and play. Those that stay on the tan rocks find lots of food and have fun playing. They grow up and marry the mouse next door and have lots of pretty tan baby mice.

Those that play on the dark gray rock though get eaten by predators and don't get to play or have fun or grow up to marry the mouse next door and have lots of pretty tan baby mice.

The baby mice that are dark gray go out to eat and play. Those that stay on the dark gray rocks find lots of food and have fun playing. They grow up and marry the mouse next door and have lots of pretty dark gray baby mice.

Those that play on the tan rock though get eaten by predators and don't get to play or have fun or grow up to marry the mouse next door and have lots of pretty dark gray baby mice.

The baby mice that are bright pink with yellow and green stripes go out to eat and play. They get eaten.

Soon there are two populations of mice, tan mice and dark gray mice and bad little mice are told, "If you do that again you will turn pink with yellow and green stripes and get eaten! And it will make you go blind too!".


The environment did absolutely nothing to cause the mutations.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by zi ko, posted 10-02-2012 12:46 AM zi ko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by zi ko, posted 10-02-2012 10:45 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33899
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 30 of 264 (674729)
10-02-2012 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by zi ko
10-02-2012 10:45 AM


Re: BRe: If the evironment is causing ...
I did provide evidence just above but will happily repeat it yet again.

quote:
There is a population of mice.

The mice have baby mice.

Not all the copies are perfect, some have mutations.

Some baby mice are tan.

Some baby mice are dark gray.

Some baby mice are bright pink with yellow and green stripes.

The baby mice that are tan go out to eat and play. Those that stay on the tan rocks find lots of food and have fun playing. They grow up and marry the mouse next door and have lots of pretty tan baby mice.

Those that play on the dark gray rock though get eaten by predators and don't get to play or have fun or grow up to marry the mouse next door and have lots of pretty tan baby mice.

The baby mice that are dark gray go out to eat and play. Those that stay on the dark gray rocks find lots of food and have fun playing. They grow up and marry the mouse next door and have lots of pretty dark gray baby mice.

Those that play on the tan rock though get eaten by predators and don't get to play or have fun or grow up to marry the mouse next door and have lots of pretty dark gray baby mice.

The baby mice that are bright pink with yellow and green stripes go out to eat and play. They get eaten.

Soon there are two populations of mice, tan mice and dark gray mice and bad little mice are told, "If you do that again you will turn pink with yellow and green stripes and get eaten! And it will make you go blind too!".


Mice had baby meeces that were both tan and dark gray in the same litter.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by zi ko, posted 10-02-2012 10:45 AM zi ko has taken no action

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33899
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 162 of 264 (676911)
10-25-2012 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by Taq
10-25-2012 5:33 PM


Re: Different mutations in different populations
There is clear indications that mutations are not random; all the puppies or kittens in a litter are identical since they were all subject to the same environmental regulation. Now if there was a litter of kittens where one had a white paw but the others had white ears or a litter of puppies where some were brown and some were brown and white you might be able to make a case for randomness. Good thing that never happens.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by Taq, posted 10-25-2012 5:33 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by Taq, posted 10-25-2012 5:43 PM jar has seen this message
 Message 164 by zi ko, posted 10-25-2012 6:58 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33899
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 168 of 264 (676929)
10-25-2012 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by zi ko
10-25-2012 6:58 PM


if the environment is guiding mutations ...
You have no thesis, hardly a hypothesis.

How do you determine which are guided mutations?

If the environment is guiding mutations why did one kitten have a white paw while another had a black tip on its tail?

Edited by jar, : fix sub-title and add question


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by zi ko, posted 10-25-2012 6:58 PM zi ko has taken no action

  
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