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Author Topic:   The Simplest Protein of Life
Stile
Member
Posts: 3766
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 1.8


(1)
Message 230 of 281 (676517)
10-23-2012 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by Larni
10-22-2012 1:14 PM


Re: New information
Larni writes:

You don't have have 100% accuracy to be information. It is still information.

See?

Damnit. I was 10 seconds away from posting a correction for this to you before I "got it."

Mistakes
"It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others."

You and your tricksy ways. I'll get you next time, and your little cat too!!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Larni, posted 10-22-2012 1:14 PM Larni has not yet responded

    
Stile
Member
Posts: 3766
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 259 of 281 (724983)
04-23-2014 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 253 by Ed67
04-23-2014 9:34 AM


Not everything is random
Ed67 writes:

BoredomSetsIn writes:

To conclude, I think the chances of a living cell forming from chemicals that just happened to bond, is ridiculously unlikely.

Wow. This guy was bang on. No wonder you guys got rid of him LOL

Well, yes, he was bang on about the chances of a living cell forming from chemicals that just happened to bond.

The issue, however, is that no one claims that life started because "chemicals just happened to bond." There are conditions that force chemicals to bond, due to their very nature. Those conditions force chemicals to bond in very specific ways.

No one says the chemical bonding was random... that's silly. The chemical bonding would happen in the natural way that chemical bonds always happen... because the chemicals are there and the conditions are present.

The "random chance" only refers to their not being any intelligent, conscious agent intervening.
It certainly does not mean that every aspect of the event was "random chance."

What BoredomSetsIn is doing is like calling an entire game of football "random chance" just because of the coin flip to see who gets which end to start the game. Then talking about how impossible it is for the players to always line up in a row to hike the ball because the random chance of that happening is 1 followed by 600 zeroes...

It's correct that there is an aspect that is random... but that aspect does seem to occur quite regularly.
It's correct that the random chance of players lining up to hike the ball, as is the chemical bonds "just happening"... is a ridiculously low number. But this doesn't matter because those aspects aren't actually random anyway.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by Ed67, posted 04-23-2014 9:34 AM Ed67 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 11:34 AM Stile has responded

    
Stile
Member
Posts: 3766
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 274 of 281 (725147)
04-24-2014 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by Ed67
04-24-2014 11:34 AM


Re: Not everything is random
Ed67 writes:

They realized (and publicized) that there is no chemical force that influences the sequence of the 4 bases on the helix.

Right, the sequence is confined to what works. If it doesn't work, it can't get replicated... so then it doesn't exist.
If it works, it can replicate, and then it exists.

Yet, the code is there, and it produced life. If not by chemical forces, how did the code get there?

Now you're asking a different question.

First you're talking about the sequencing alone... and when talking about the sequencing alone, you're right... that is not influenced by chemical forces... that's just whatever works.
But now you're asking how the sequence was formed ("how did the code get there?").

The answer is, of course, that the sequence was formed through the chemical forces that always form any and all organic chemicals when the conditions are present.

The order or specific sequencing is not governed by chemical forces... that's governed by what can work by replicating itself.
However, they're still all bonded through chemical forces. The same way all molecules are formed.

I submit that the inference to the best explanation is that a designing intelligence was necessary.

In order to submit that a designing intelligence was necessary, you'll have to support a reason why a designing intelligence would be necessary beyond "I don't understand chemistry."


This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 11:34 AM Ed67 has not yet responded

    
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