I Know That God Does Not Exist

May I remind you of the late Stephen Hawking? He was far beyond the use of sign-language and a walking frame to "shuffle around on" - as you so sympathetically put it. Yet we all know his contributions to his field were world-class.If all you can muster about Biden and Pelosi is the use of snide insults concerning their age or physical fitness, you must have run out of real arguments.

That's a nice move, Dredge, ignoring the whole thread and starting all over again. Obviously, you've missed the finesse of Stile's argument. Stile talks about knowing that things do or don't exist, and you say that's "just like" knowing the future. These concepts are not the same at all, of course. And if you really thought about it, you'd know that.

God is descibed as omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent. It can be argued that these three attributes are mutually incompatible. I'm sure I don't need to go over the details here, it's been done to death already. Anyway, that's one way we can know that God does not exist, if God is indeed supposed to have these three attributes simultaneously. Show me how this is a stupid argument, but with a proper counterargument instead of with a self-proclaimed yet unwarranted axiom.

So you're trying to show my argument is stupid by using a counter-argument that's... well, profoundly stupid? If I could prove that God had those attributes, he would have to exist, right? Otherwise God would not be there to possess those attributes. But the point is that 1) those attributes are mutually incompatible, so no entity can exist that posssesses them, and 2) God is defined to have those attributes by believers. Definitions do not necessarily comply with reality. Those believers don't realise their definition is logically impossible.If the above is too complicated for you, think how you would go about disproving the existence of a green invisible monster under your bed. Good night.

I must say, that is a commendable response to my criticism. In my opinion it even merits an apology (hereby offered) for the harsh tone of my previous message. If coffee is what it takes to avoid stupid mistakes then there is hope for you yet. I suggest you up the dosage a notch and enjoy the coffee-klatsch that is EvC.

Well, the question then becomes which "god" we are talking about. It cannot be the god of the of the christians, because theirs is defined to have those three attributes. In fact, it then becomes much easier to defend the position because it would become "some or other god does not exist", which would garner a whole lot more supporters from among many religious people as well, as long as "some or other god" whose existence is denied isn't their particular deity.By the way, if the Judeo-Christian god existed, he could certainly not be omnibenevolent. After all, to quote Stephen Fry: "Bone cancer in children?! What's that about?"

Edited by Parasomnium, .

Perhaps not, but still, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Only after you die might you discover whether you're saved. If the muslims have it right, you're screwed. And so with just about any other denomination that isn't yours. That's why I put my money on the here and now, which is the only where and when I can do something about making my life, and that of others, worth living.

Omnipresence is a bit of a parochial quality, compared to omnipotence and omniscience. If an entity possesses those last two qualities, omnipresence is a bit superfluous: if you can do anything and know everything, why would you need to be everywhere?Anyway, omnibenevolence is a quality that is often mentioned when people consider the problem of evil. That's where the logical conflict starts.

The important difference is that cellphone service exists (most of the time) and the Holy Spirit doesn't. Really? had to allow? So God couldn't not allow evil to exist? Well, that's a bummer... So much for God's omnipotence. Why? Couldn't God just create them perfect in one go? So we have free will. God allows us to make our own choices. But if we choose wrong hell and damnation awaits us. What kind of free will is that? You're saying that with or without God the problem persists. So, essentially, God is useless. I knew that already, and now so do you.I hope you now also realise that all these brain contortions to explain away all the inevitable inconsistencies your religious belief engenders are quite unnecessary if you would just stick to rationalism.