How can you guys believe in a loving god that allows his believers to die slowly like this. Or even at all. You cling onto story book ideas but you look the other way at things that really happen in every minute of every day.
Oh, the irony! Atheists are quick to condemn God for all the terrible things in life, but "look the other way" and never think to thank God for all the wonderful things in life. A curious imbalance, I must say.
How do you explain a loving god that allows and has created death, disease and suffering?
Well, as far as humans are concerned, pain and suffering are a result of the Fall. As for the pain and suffering of non-human creatures, there is reason to believe their creation is a process of moving from imperfect to perfect:
"The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them. The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. The infant will play near the hole of the cobra, and the young child put his hand into the viper's nest. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea." ISAIAH 11:6-9
How do you explain that the same God that allows pain and suffering also promises this? ...
â€œEye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.â€ (1Cor 2:9).
"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away. He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true." He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son." (Revelation 21:1-7).
Also crap. You god is incapable of creating perfection? Where are we then Life 1.0? Are we waiting for the next minor upgrade?
God's promises will arrive in the fullness of time. Meanwhile, you can believe that this life is as good as it gets - if that's what makes you happy. (Personally, if I believed this life is all there is, I would be miserable.)
God is increasing easy to find in nature - namely, science.
Can't be happy without God? - wrong, atheists are just as happy.
When I'm on my death-bed, I will be very much looking forward to dying an waking up in heaven. When your average atheist is on his death-bed, he will be overwhelmed by fear and sadness, as all he has to look forward to is eternal oblivion after living a meaningless life.
Can't be spiritually fulfilled without God? - wrong, atheists are just as spiritually fulfilled.
Spiritually without God or an after-life? How does that work?
Forgetting about organised religion for a sec, would it make you happy to know that there exists a God who loves you and promises to grant those who love him in return eternal life in a heavenly paradise?
Or are you happier believing that there is no such God and that this life is all there is?
And what if you were a man of logic and reason who had a family and who did care about them and was unwilling to throw his logic, reason, and reality away to follow some ethereal spook with empty cultural and dogmatic promises for fear that abandoning reason may just hurt his family? What then, o wise one?
I have no idea what you're talking about or why you're asking me this.
Oh good; that's a start, at least. Some atheists don't want God to exist.
Ah, the catch. You know, the thing about real love is that it's unconditional. This god of yours that you're describing here, that demands our love whilst promising everlasting damnation if we don't is an evil narcissist.
1. God doesn't "demand" that we love Him. That would be pointless - God can do lots of things but He can't make us love Him.
2. Of course there are conditions for getting into Heaven! Do you think Ted Bundy and Adolf Hitler deserve to be in Heaven?
Being happier or not about a fact is irrelevant.
Ya coulda fooled me - if I didn't believe in God I wouldn't even want to be alive - hardly "irrelevant".
Life is simply all there is so I get on with it and normally feel grateful for it.
As far as I'm concerned, this life is really as ultimately meaningless as a dream that will be completely forgotten as soon as I die (although the consequences of this life are eternal). After that, my real life begins. Can't wait!
Of course, in order for us to know this, you'll have to show it. Can you do that?
Exhibit A - abiogenesis.
When I'm on my death-bed, I will be comforted of a life well lived, not wasting a second on anything that didn't exist; living real - in reality - every moment full of the greatest of meanings and purpose.
Well, you're very easily pleased, I must say! As for me, a few years of meaningless activity is not nearly enough. For life to have meaning, it must first of all be eternal, or at least lead to eternity. .
When your average Christian is on their death-bed, they will be overwhelmed by fear and sadness... the doubt of being wrong about God's existence will dawn and they will go screaming into oblivion, knowing that they wasted so much time.
I've never met one that wouldn't like a nice one. But that's never the option
Never the option? Of course it's an option - you simply believe in a "nice" God of your own making and imagination. Organised religion doesn't have a monopoly on theism, you know.
It's really sad that you have no meaning in the only life you have.
This life does have meaning for me - but only in the sense that I must endure it to get to the eternity of heaven.
On the other hand, the atheist perspective means life has no purpose or meaning - you get born, spend a few years indulging in meaningless activities, then you die and and become eternal dust. A pointless, futile existence that amounts to nothing.
And I really don't think there's all that much difference between the theologies of dredge and thugs and me. Insofar as we believe in what the Bible says anyway, because it SAYS "God is love" and "God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son that whosoever believeth on Him should not perish but have everlasting llfe." That's a promise to love us isn't it? And "We love Him because He first loved us." In other words He gives us the means to fulfill that command to love Him. He loves us first and makes us know it.
Well said, Faith.
As far as I know, the Judeo-Christian faith is the only religion in which God tells humans that He loves them.
No it's the opposite of a promise of love, it's a superstitious, murderous blood sacrifice for no sane reason.
"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: â€œI will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.â€ (1Corinthians 1:18-19)
"The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1Cor 2:14)