I Know That God Does Not Exist

Hi Stile! You are one of my favorite opponents, since we rarely agree and yet are so polite to each other! So by the definition of knowing, what you mean is that through all logic, rationality, and reasonableness you know that God does not exist...right? If so, I am inclined to agree with you. My only comment would be that just because one guy knows something does not lead to the logical presupposition that everyone knows it. Again, Ive no reason to doubt your position. I cannot counter it with the idea that I know that God exists. All I can say is that I believe that God exists. In the case of God, we don't really have a consensus on what this Being is supposed to do, nor where He/She/It resides. Thus, I would argue that the claim is more difficult than the Santa Claus one. Besides, some would argue that if the idea of Santa Claus classically defined exists in their hearts and minds, Santa Claus does in fact exist at their house...living through them, no doubt. Again, it is but a belief and a belief put into practice, however. And again, this is where I can't challenge your logic.My only question is this: Is it possible that some people know differently than other people, or must we assign everyone a demand to adhere to the evidence apart from their own subjective musings?

... The only sort of subjective evidence that I can see supporting the possibility of a Deity is personal experiences and changed lives. I don't however, expect that to be counted as public evidence, but rather rationale for private and personal belief.Again, in this subject...as discussed in a science forum, I have no argument with Stiles theory as to why God does not exist. On a personal level, I have my own standards, however. Edited by Phat, :

From what I know of Elephants, I most definitely agree that absence of evidence...not to mention presence...is all that I need to conclude that no elephant is in my living room.Of course, I dont expect a Deity to be visible to begin with, so my criteria for evidence of such a presence would revolve around beliefs, feelings, and bias. Logically, there is no verifiable nor recordable evidence for a Deity or any supernatural entity in my living room.And yet I believe that He is there. Belief is all that I have. I have no knowledge apart from subjective experience.

It all depends what you are trying to prove. Edited by Phat, : added malarky

What if thats the only way God decided to reveal Himself?(Herself,Itself, etc)Assuming a concept of communion, how would one tell whether God was entirely their own imagination or that they were communing with Him? Granted, not all of mankind has claimed to have found said Deity. If only one man claimed to have found it, would it count? Say we had a team of people searching for snakes in your garden. The only way to prove to everyone that the snakes were there would be physical evidence, right? But what if these snakes were invisible and nobody was certain whether or not they existed?

Some of the searchers, however, claimed to have felt these snakes slithering on their arms.

a few of the claimants were delusional or prone to exaggeration, yet at least one of them was an otherwise respectable intelligent man.

These invisible snakes were said (by cultural mythos) to possess a venom that could cure many ailments. In fact, many people who were healed claimed that the snakes bit them as they were about to die. How do we separate fairy tales from folklore?

Perhaps I have anxiety over Him not being real. I feel that when I talk to Him (to an empty room) that He responds in a subtle way....if nothing else, its the saner calm altruistic part of my mind that calms my anxiety. I will admit that I need for Him to exist.

Maybe be cause it is pending. It ain't yet false neither. Perhaps we should call it a statement of proposed fact.

Is there a difference between saying "I know that God does not exist" and "we know that God does not exist?"I would argue that subjective experience allows for some people to honestly know that God does not exist and for other people to honestly doubt or even affirm that God exists.It is always good to continue questioning, however. And as for tangles "garden" not only is the universe a very big garden, but our human mind itself is a rather large garden as well. I don't think that we have explored every nook and cranny in there or out there either. In fact, I wouldnt even assign a probability, as others have done.

I like this exchange. So for me personally, I can't say...beyond subjective experiences coupled with confirmation bias...that I know God exists, although I do often irrationally talk with Him. I also cannot honestly say that I know that He doesn't exist, though I suppose were I to wish to be in agreement with my neighbor on such a lofty philosophical possibility I may accept further knowledge.Lots depends on the motive, if we are to approach this from a strictly philosophical standpoint. First of all, if we have a room full of philosophers seeking something to conclude, bias often enters the picture. I may seek to prove X to be true, while you may seek to prove Y true. And further, what do we define as truth?
DEFINITION OF TRUE or TRUTH:

That X is unknowable.

That X is knowable.

That logic is truth.
etc etc. Do you see my point?

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Does this hypothetical room of philosophers wish to ultimately agree or disagree? Or perhaps the goal is simply to expand knowledge....

And I have also proposed that He/She/It may be somewhere in our mind or brain, which, by the way does not mean that we invented Him/Her/It. All that it means is that He can hide quite well.Still, Knowledge is not yet complete, and the facts are not all yet in. Stay tuned as we look in all of the gardens on the block...We dug up Tangles whole yard and all we found were earthworms to use as fishing bait!

We have three "God" topics in high rotation, chiefly because I like talking about such things. I have to discipline myself, however, and sort the data as to which topic should be addressed by what specific criteria.This topic is in the Science Forums.Thus I can summarize that I have no evidence apart from my subjective beliefs and feelings on the matter.

As a believer, I seem to see that your argument is mixing emotion and expectation with logic, reason, and reality. Or am I misunderstanding you?

In my opinion,and for the sake of science, if we cant rule one of them out we cant rule any of them out...but maybe we can have a tournament and reduce them down to the Final Four or something.

This post serves as my topic summation. In my mind, anything within the realm of my imagination can exist. In my belief, GOD(as I understand Him) exists. Stile does, however, have a point in that testable observable human reality, we collectively must have logic, reason, and reality as our basis for knowledge.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

I can honestly say that I can know that God is unprovable.I also can honestly say that my relationship with Him is in my mind and soul, if you will. I am trying to know Him.I believe that God can be known if one seeks Him with their whole heart. (integrity)I also believe that God draws men to seek Him. We have no desire to do so in our natural state of mind...unless the God we seek is one created entirely on our own terms and desires.