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Author | Topic: I Know That God Does Not Exist | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
1.61803 Member (Idle past 734 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
Is this not a fallacious argument from ignorance and incredulity? Absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence. Granted the idea of tea pots orbiting the sun or spaghetti monsters existing are as valid as God existing. A common side step is to say that indeed God does not exist. Some theist contend God simply is, rather than exist. A undifferentiated, manifested reality of being itself. Is one way it was explained to me. I do not know that God does not exist. "You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 734 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
Hi all.
The premise that "I know God does not exist." is a flawed fallacious argument from ignorance and incredulity. Saying that I can accept and agree that there are good reasons to believe tea pots orbiting the sun or God does not exist. Edited by 1.61803, : No reason given. "You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 734 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
Hi Straggler, I do think scientific knowledge is possible. In fact I believe it is a superior way to obtain knowledge.
As far as what do I know? "Congito ergo sum."
"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 734 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
Hi Stile, I say again that it is reasonable to conclude the non existence of God, but to claim knowledge of such sets up a false dichotomy perhaps. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance http://en.wikipedia.org/...incredulity.2FLack_of_imagination Arguments from incredulity take the form: "You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 734 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
Hi Stile,
I agree that you have a case to make a statement that you know God does not exist, for all the reason you site. Your thought experiment on birds is a good example of why arguments of incredulity and ignorance are illogical and fallacious. If I set a piece of meat down and say it will putrefy because there are invisible creatures in the air that will colonize in the meat and cause it to spoil. If I give you no means to confirm this you could say, "that is ludicrous." Just because something on its face seems ludicrous does not mean it is not true. How many times has the impossible and improbable become fact? So how long did it take? How much to we know now in comparison to what we did in years past? Are we at the limits of human knowledge? The thing some theist worship could be some super advanced intelligent alien race. A aphid on my tomato plant could never know what my Iphone is. What if we are like a aphid on a plant, ignorant to the multitude of complex technology beyond our sensory perception and even frame of reference. I agree, the mythological gods/ God, orbiting teapots, spaghetti monster don't exist. We may not know what God is yet. "You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 734 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
The ideal gas law, cellular respiration, the Kreb cycle, take your pick. "You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 734 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined:
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Hello Stile, Your statement "I know that God does not exist." being based on the premise that you find it absurd is also a fallacious argument. So we now have argument from ignorance So stating you know God does not exist because you looked everywhere conceivable and found the evidence lacking is good enough for you. This is tautology concerning atheist. Given a atheist audience I can see where this could be considered a statement of fact. God does not exist. Except everyone does not hold this view. Which you then label as irrational, absurd and incredible. "You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 734 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
Things can be absurd, irrational, and incredible and still exist. Lets look at the discussion on quantum tunneling from the other thread you are participating in. Does Quantum mechanics seem rational to you? "You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 734 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
Yes this is a great statement. But that is not what you are doing. These are the very arguments presented against the uncertainty principle and other bizarre aspects of how reality was being described. Yet here we are today fully incorporating QM into the known body of science. How about the Higgs? How long did it take to finally find that it does indeed exist? And if we did not find it, would we conclude it does not exist? Turn the lights off in the LHC and go home? The problem with God is like reality he refuses to be pinned down. "You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 734 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
Hi Phat, I am not mixing logic with belief. I am merely poking holes in Stiles argument where I can. He is of course defending his statement "I know that God does not exist." I do see Stiles point very clearly, My only point was that if it were that simple to claim victory everyone would agree his argument is sound. The Gordian knot comes to mind. "You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 734 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
Hello Panda, Prior to the construction of Super colliders' was there any way such physical evidence would of been obtained? Is that a problem concerning the rational for the potential existence of God? That there is no way to test such a proposal so it must be null?
"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 734 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
A belief that is both justified and true, in addition to having Problem being there is no real consensus on what knowledge is, which is why I do appreciate Stile defining his terms. But that still does not exonerate him from fallacious arguments. Although he will say he does not agree they are such. "You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 734 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
I concede to you the atheist victory. As for agnostics and theist
blow it out your arse. ![]() "You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 734 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
So we confine our inquiry to that which is only reasonable? Seems like a argument from incredulity again. "You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 734 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
Does the propostion that reality may consist of being a 2D hologram manifesting the universe seem rational or irrational? Does the idea of nature existing in a flux of probabilities waves rather than actual physical objects seem rational or irrational? Does the idea that there may be a God existing unconstrained by nature seem irrational? oh you said yes to that one. All these things are under investigation. "You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs
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