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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5790
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 721 of 2138 (855781)
06-23-2019 12:05 AM
Reply to: Message 714 by Theodoric
06-22-2019 10:33 PM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
What do you think happened to all of those people?

Most of them died from disease they had no immunity to.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 714 by Theodoric, posted 06-22-2019 10:33 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 725 by Dredge, posted 06-23-2019 12:15 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded
 Message 733 by Theodoric, posted 06-23-2019 9:03 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

    
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5790
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.9


(2)
Message 724 of 2138 (855784)
06-23-2019 12:13 AM
Reply to: Message 722 by Dredge
06-23-2019 12:05 AM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
Did you notice how all the colonising nations were Christian? God used colonisation to spread the gospel.

Yeah, spreading the gospel and disease and displacement and destruction. Theo is making it seem as if Christians can do no right, but you seem to be doing just as much whitewashing and assuming that "spreading the gospel" and colonization is morally justified. You know, you can defend the gospel without having to defend every misguided deed under that same banner. Why would you even try to when some of it was patently odious?


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 722 by Dredge, posted 06-23-2019 12:05 AM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 727 by Dredge, posted 06-23-2019 12:32 AM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 736 by Theodoric, posted 06-23-2019 10:09 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

    
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5790
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.9


(1)
Message 729 of 2138 (855789)
06-23-2019 12:51 AM
Reply to: Message 727 by Dredge
06-23-2019 12:32 AM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
Christian colonization did much more good than harm. How would like your daughter to be sacrificed to the Aztec sun god?

Did it? How exactly do you propose we quantify that which remains unseen?

Are you blaming the disease that decimated the native americans on Christianity? You believe in the "Jesus germ" too?

No, I was answering Theo's very specific question. He asked how most native's died. It was not from open warfare it was from pestilence. But it was an unintended consequence from European expansion. Europeans gave them Smallpox, Natives gave Europeans Syphilis.

Now that colonization has ended in Africa, hundreds of thousands of Africans risk their lives every year trying to enter Europe illegally. Why? Because their respective "liberated" nations have descended into chaos and they desperately want to live in the safe and prosperous nations of their former colonial masters. I recently heard that many of these fleeing Africans have begun entering the US via Mexico, instead of Europe.

You know, your version of Christianity is suspiciously dressed up as Eurocentric racism. Probably 40% the continent of Africa identifies as "Christian" so if its not as prosperous as Europe, which is now predominantly secular, then you are in fact not making a compelling case for Christianity, its relevance, or its importance.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 727 by Dredge, posted 06-23-2019 12:32 AM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 738 by Theodoric, posted 06-23-2019 10:15 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded
 Message 751 by Dredge, posted 06-23-2019 8:32 PM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 753 by Dredge, posted 06-23-2019 9:01 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

    
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5790
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.9


(1)
Message 739 of 2138 (855809)
06-23-2019 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 736 by Theodoric
06-23-2019 10:09 AM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
If christians want to take responsibility for all the good they have done, they must also take responsibility for the destruction they have caused.
It is funny how we hear all the great things christians have done and if any christian does good things christians hail how wonderful their religion is. But if any christian does evil, crickets. We either hear they were not real christians or the fact that they were christian has nothing to do with anything.

My only criticism was that its always best not to treat groups as a homogenized unit - especially one so large and diverse. There's a ton of destruction sowed under the banner of Islam, but it would be unfair to lay every misdeed at the feet of every single Muslim considering most did not participate or condone the actions of others. That same rule applies to Christianity. Dredge, however, sounds like a complete cunt and is very much deserving of the personal criticism he's so richly earned.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 736 by Theodoric, posted 06-23-2019 10:09 AM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 740 by Theodoric, posted 06-23-2019 10:45 AM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 819 by Dredge, posted 06-27-2019 11:08 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

    
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5790
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.9


(2)
Message 742 of 2138 (855816)
06-23-2019 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 740 by Theodoric
06-23-2019 10:45 AM


Re: No group is all good or all bad
People cannot just take credit for any good their ingroup does, and then turn around ignore all the bad.

That's a fair point, especially with the Hitlerian fervor that Dredge is pushing... guy sounds like Mel Gibson at a Holocaust memorial.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 740 by Theodoric, posted 06-23-2019 10:45 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 749 by Faith, posted 06-23-2019 3:57 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded
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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5790
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.9


(1)
Message 752 of 2138 (855840)
06-23-2019 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 751 by Dredge
06-23-2019 8:32 PM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
Whatever. It was evolution - the survival of the fittest. You do believe in evolution, don't you? Maybe you ignore evolution when it comes into conflict with your religion - ie, cultural Marxism - more specifically, its infantile utopian fantasies about racial equality.

I don't subscribe to anything Marxist, cultural or economic, but maybe you can explain what an "infantile utopian fantasy about racial equality" means. Flesh that out a little and we can discuss what I do or do not ascribe to.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 751 by Dredge, posted 06-23-2019 8:32 PM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 756 by Dredge, posted 06-23-2019 9:11 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

    
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5790
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 755 of 2138 (855844)
06-23-2019 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 753 by Dredge
06-23-2019 9:01 PM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
It's got nothing to do with religion. It about hordes of sub-saharan (ie,black) Africans fleeing the consequences of their homelands being "liberated" from colonialism - ie, corruption, choas, violence, poverty, hopelessness. In other words, sub-saharan Africa has returned to its natural state - and hundreds of thousands of its native inhabitants hate it so much they are willing to risk their lives trying to get to Europe to live with their former colonial masters.

Nothing to do with religion but does have something to do with race? You mentioned only sub-saharan Africans (Africa is a very large continent filled with many different races and ethnicities). And if its got nothing to do with religion then why are you mentioning it on this thread?


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 753 by Dredge, posted 06-23-2019 9:01 PM Dredge has not yet responded

    
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5790
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 757 of 2138 (855846)
06-23-2019 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 756 by Dredge
06-23-2019 9:11 PM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
You sound like you subscribe to infantile utopian fantasies about racial equality - which qualifies you as a cultural Marxist (even if you don't know what that term means).
Restrictions on freedom of speech prevent me from elaborating on what I mean by "infantile utopian fantasy about racial equality".

I know exactly what cultural marxism is, which is how I know I don't subscribe to it. But now I'm very curious what restriction you think is burdening you without the ability to speak freely. You may be challenged on shitty ideas but no one will prevent you from saying them. So have at it... if you're so convinced of the rightness of your beliefs then have the confidence to openly defend them.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 756 by Dredge, posted 06-23-2019 9:11 PM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 761 by vimesey, posted 06-24-2019 7:20 AM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 795 by Dredge, posted 06-25-2019 10:21 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

    
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5790
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 765 of 2138 (855858)
06-24-2019 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 761 by vimesey
06-24-2019 7:20 AM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
I'm guessing that with Dredge being from Australia, he is referring to the Racial Discrimination Act over there (and a number of other laws which prescribe racially hateful speech).

quote:
A person must not, on the ground of the religious belief or activity of another person or class of persons, engage in conduct that incites hatred against, serious contempt for, or revulsion or severe ridicule of, that other person or class of persons.
Note: "engage in conduct" includes use of the internet or e-mail to publish or transmit statements or other material.

Wow, that's pretty fascist... Dredge's beliefs have thus far sounded awful to me, but laws like this I believe actually insulate, reinforce and magnify animosities, not curb them. It also does a disservice to him and everyone else not having the ability to freely discuss why he holds animosities. It just locks them in like a pressure cooker until they're released explosively


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 761 by vimesey, posted 06-24-2019 7:20 AM vimesey has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 767 by vimesey, posted 06-24-2019 10:33 AM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 768 by Theodoric, posted 06-24-2019 10:35 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded
 Message 823 by Dredge, posted 06-27-2019 11:25 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

    
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5790
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.9


(1)
Message 785 of 2138 (855944)
06-25-2019 2:34 AM
Reply to: Message 767 by vimesey
06-24-2019 10:33 AM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
We have similar legislation in this country - a lot of other countries do too. See this page here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech
I disagree that it's fascist. I certainly don't live in a fascist country and as you'll see, there's a decent amount of international consensus on the issue between a number of liberal democracies.

I used the word "fascist" pejoratively and as obvious hyperbole. What isn't hyperbole though is that I do think that Hate Crime laws in Australia sound a little loose and a little too open to abuse. I see it as a slippery slope. For instance, I do see a place for Hate Crime laws when a specific action (i.e. assault) is accompanied by a clear and definable motive. And it should also be a crime to specifically threaten anyone on account of their gender, sexual orientation, religion, race, ethnicity and so on. But if someone is simply sharing their personal beliefs on an internet forum and not making specific threats, then they're just talking... talking shit, to be exact. You and I may disagree with the content on a personal level, as I think I've been very quick to point out with Dredge, but if he is too afraid to speak his mind on account of government intrusion, well, that sir is a bridge too far and one that very much is leading towards a path to actual fascism.

We take, I think, a different view to many in the US, in that we don't see rights as 100% absolute in every case - sometimes rights conflict with each other, and when that happens, we believe a pragmatic view has to be taken (by society, and through a democratic process) to limit one of the rights in conflict. In this instance, the right to free speech was seen to be creating more harm against certain groups on the receiving end of prejudice, than would be caused to people by limiting somewhat their right to free speech. So we enacted laws to that effect.

I agree, up to a point. Saying "I'm going to kill Asian women on Tuesday at this location" is a little bit different than simply espousing racist ideology. Both are odious, but one is communicating an actual threat. It really depends on how far we're taking it.

I realise that seems totally contrary to your understanding of rights, but it works for us.

No, there's a lot of similarities and overlap between UK, Aussie and US law when it comes to this. My contention, if I'm reading Aussie law correctly, is that it is very broad when it comes to defining "acts." Creating a post on an internet forum is an "act," if I'm understanding their law correctly, whereas the United States would distinguish act from speech. Now there are, correctly in my estimation, limitations on what speech can or cannot be protected. Communicating a specific threat is a crime. And even then it is measured on a case by case basis because it ought to pass through several thresholds as a safeguard to protecting speech.

When it comes to speech, we have to be very careful -- careful not to miss an overt threat and thus hinder our ability to protect the targeted individual but also careful not to label something an overt threat that is actually someone sharing a personal opinion, regardless of whether you or I think it is offensive.

Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 767 by vimesey, posted 06-24-2019 10:33 AM vimesey has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 786 by Faith, posted 06-25-2019 5:29 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded
 Message 789 by vimesey, posted 06-25-2019 9:38 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded
 Message 924 by Dredge, posted 07-02-2019 12:00 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

    
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5790
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 796 of 2138 (856047)
06-25-2019 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 792 by Dredge
06-25-2019 9:47 PM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
I don’t know. What do you mean by “racial equality”? And how does the “equality” of organisms fit into your Darwinist belief-system? I’ve never come across any such concept in evolutionary science (and as you know, I’m very well-read in that area), so perhaps this “equality” thing is unscientific and a fig-tree of your imagination or some emotional response to reality.

If your belief about Darwinian evolution is one where only "might makes right" or where ruthlessness is the only virtue lauded by nature, then you'd be misguided. Cooperation amongst humans and equitable societies could also be explained by evolutionary theory.

quote:
Whites are superior?

I don’t know. What do you mean by “superior”?

Maybe try the dictionary...


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 792 by Dredge, posted 06-25-2019 9:47 PM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 934 by Dredge, posted 07-02-2019 12:31 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

    
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5790
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.9


(1)
Message 800 of 2138 (856052)
06-25-2019 10:56 PM
Reply to: Message 795 by Dredge
06-25-2019 10:21 PM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
If you believe in racial equality

I believe in equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome. The latter would be a Cultural Marxist maxim.

feminism

I believe in the literal definition of feminism, but modern incarnations are heavily influenced by cultural marxism.

abortion

You should love abortion since the usually the only people getting them are cultural marxists who are otherwise would be creating armies of other cultural marxists.

“gay” rights

Yes, I think gay people should be treated equally.

If you vote for the Democrats

Never once voted for a Democrat ever in my life... I'm 42 years old.

If you live in Austin, Texas, you are almost certainly a cultural Marxist.

Austin is certainly a very liberal city, but not everybody living here is de facto liberal or a cultural marxist.

All in all, you sound like an awful human being... if not being a cultural marxist means that I have to be a racist, homophobic, misogynist then I guess I'll accept your misrepresented label. There's only one descriptive word for you though: CUNT. Jesus would be so proud... but probably more so ISIS. Now you've piqued my curiosity when it comes to your thoughts on Islam, as you seem to have wayyyy more in common than you do differences

Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 795 by Dredge, posted 06-25-2019 10:21 PM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 921 by Dredge, posted 07-01-2019 11:46 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

    
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5790
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 821 of 2138 (856149)
06-27-2019 11:16 PM
Reply to: Message 818 by Dredge
06-27-2019 10:22 PM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
You quote a verse like this ” “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things” (Isaiah 45:7) out of context, but then when I ask you to explain how God can be “evil” in this verse, yet be “a righteous God” a few verses later (v.21), you have no sensible answer.

If God is the Creator of all then nothing can exist apart from his will, to include evil. Evil obviously serves a vital function just as light is meaningless without the understanding of what darkness is by contrast. So it seems that the Isaiah verse is not taken out of context, that exactly as it says is exactly as it means. Seems like a reasonable deduction given the omnipotence of the Creator. Perhaps evil's sole function is to provide meaning to good. But God is still ultimately responsible for its existence. But, hey, you and I are the molded clay... so who are we to bitch?


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 818 by Dredge, posted 06-27-2019 10:22 PM Dredge has not yet responded

    
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