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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 2111 of 3207 (861362)
08-20-2019 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 2108 by Stile
08-20-2019 1:38 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Stile writes:
I am saying "I know that God does not exist."
And you are wrong to do so. You imply certainty
Based on the facts that all knowledge is tentative and all knowledge is based on our current information.
Therefore, you can't 'know' in the normal usage of the word.
If you think any knowledge is absolute, or any knowledge is based on something beyond our current information - you're free to explain how it's viable.
I'm saying the exact opposite. I can only assume now that you're simply being obstinate.
I'll get off this roundabout now for a while, I'm feeling a bit nauseous. I can only go round in circles for a limited time. Meanwhile, Ringo will keep you spinning indefinitely.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2108 by Stile, posted 08-20-2019 1:38 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2114 by Stile, posted 08-20-2019 2:14 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 2181 of 3207 (861910)
08-29-2019 4:02 AM
Reply to: Message 2176 by Phat
08-28-2019 9:58 PM


Re: When specifics are required
Phat writes:
Intelligent skeptics are far more likely to believe in *anything* which can be "evidenced"...
Post after post, year after year you make the same mistakes. Rational people do not believe in things that can be evidenced; things that can be evidenced do not require beliefs. You know this, can't disagree with it but still you repeat it. What's left of your rational mind has all its shields up all of the time now.
I think it is because their minds can conceptualize it whereas their minds cannot and will not conceptualize God.
Then you think wrong. You make the same wrong assumptions over and over and no amount of correction changes anything. It's utterly pointless trying to explain anything to you because you can't leave your bubble. Everyone can conceptualise god - it's really really easy, that's why there's been so many of them. What's hard is trying to understand our need to believe in things that are only imaginary.
And before you object, you think the same of believers in flat earths and Vishna as I do but can not apply that same logic to your own belief.
Its not simply a mind issue...its a heart issue...
It's only a mind issue; hearts pump blood.
they have no love of the truth...surrender to belief..
You routinely use these pulpit phrases like they have some real meaning in the real world. Yet when I ask you to tell us what they mean, you never do.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2176 by Phat, posted 08-28-2019 9:58 PM Phat has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 2243 of 3207 (862430)
09-05-2019 8:01 AM
Reply to: Message 2242 by AlexCaledin
09-05-2019 7:55 AM


That’s the stupidest thing I’ve heard this month. Bravo.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2242 by AlexCaledin, posted 09-05-2019 7:55 AM AlexCaledin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2244 by vimesey, posted 09-05-2019 8:28 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(2)
Message 2245 of 3207 (862436)
09-05-2019 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 2244 by vimesey
09-05-2019 8:28 AM


That's fair

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2244 by vimesey, posted 09-05-2019 8:28 AM vimesey has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 2257 of 3207 (862541)
09-06-2019 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 2255 by Stile
09-06-2019 9:55 AM


Re: When specifics are required
Stile writes:
I'm being consistent and rational in my terminology.
You've spent 150 pages just buggering about with what the word 'know' means.
And it looks like you're heading for another 150.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2255 by Stile, posted 09-06-2019 9:55 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2261 by Stile, posted 09-06-2019 12:42 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 2264 of 3207 (862554)
09-06-2019 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 2261 by Stile
09-06-2019 12:42 PM


Re: When specifics are required
Stile writes:
My position was, and still is, that "know" is always not absolute. There is always doubt.
Yeh, I know what your position is. It's a pedantic, nit-picking, silly and wrong point.
We do know many things for certain. When we don't know things for certain we say we don't know and/or can't know, but we are often able to form temporary probabilistic conclusions about them based on what we do know.
Your certainty about things that we have no knowledge of is not scientific.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2261 by Stile, posted 09-06-2019 12:42 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2267 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 09-06-2019 2:14 PM Tangle has replied
 Message 2269 by Stile, posted 09-06-2019 2:18 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 2272 of 3207 (862566)
09-06-2019 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 2265 by Phat
09-06-2019 1:57 PM


Re: When specifics are required
Phat writes:
Many many people claim to have been "saved".
Yeh, they'll be the idiots. It's a truly stupid conceit, even your bible tells you that nobody can know that.
Granted the concept appears unreasonable and a product of the imagination...particularly given the afterward behavior of some of these people.
And yet you'll ignore it.
Is it unreasonable to doubt the claim from so many people?
No.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2265 by Phat, posted 09-06-2019 1:57 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2274 by Faith, posted 09-06-2019 3:07 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 2273 of 3207 (862567)
09-06-2019 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 2267 by goldenlightArchangel
09-06-2019 2:14 PM


Re: People deny science for not considering certainty
cG writes:
People have no knowledge at all on why they came to this World . . would that make them less scientific (or intellgent) people
No
But their blind certainty about things they have no knowledge about looks more like a belief, and that ignorance sure looks very repugnant or despicable as well . .
Who has blind certainty?
What about not bringing more people to this World, because it's a hundred per cent certainty that you'd be bringing more of the same.
I have no idea what you're talking about.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2267 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 09-06-2019 2:14 PM goldenlightArchangel has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 2275 of 3207 (862569)
09-06-2019 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 2269 by Stile
09-06-2019 2:18 PM


Re: When specifics are required
Stile writes:
For absolutely-cannot-possibly-ever-be-wrong certain?
Of for certain "beyond any reasonable doubt?"
If you mean the former - you're obviously wrong.
If you mean the latter - that's exactly what I'm talking about, and exactly what leads to the conclusion that I know God does not exist.
I know for absolute certain that I'm typing stuff into this iPad. And I can prove it. More importantly so can you.
"Beyond reasonable doubt" is the same level of certainty we have for any and all things we declare as "certain."
You can not know about things that are outside our existing knowledge. By definition.
But I'm off this roundabout again for another 50 pages. I'll leave you to go around and around.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2269 by Stile, posted 09-06-2019 2:18 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2276 by Stile, posted 09-06-2019 4:21 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 2370 of 3207 (869556)
01-02-2020 3:27 AM
Reply to: Message 2369 by Faith
01-01-2020 3:31 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Faith writes:
I guess things have gone so bad in the West that nobody even recognizes how totally Christian it all used to be
I'm currently travelling through Germany, the origin of your version of Lutherian beliefs. You'd be very surprised if you did a similar journey. You'd actually understand that the majority of all Christianity is and always was Catholicism. It was a religion but it was secondary to its political, military and financial power - the religious element was simply a useful method of subjugating the gullible masses.
I'm sitting in Koblenz looking at an enormous castle which was the Catholic garrison and treasury. There's an admin 'campus', at the foot of the hill it sits on and an ancient Cathedral in the town. You have no comprehension of the power these institutions held, none at all. The church ran Europe, legally, financially and militarily controlling kings with one or all of those tools. You should get yourself a passport and educate yourself - get yourself a sense of historical perspective, you're sat in a tiny echo chamber staring at a screen not seeing the real picture.
And before you complain that Catholicism was the work of the devil, it and its offspring Orthodoxy was - and is - the entirety of Christianity for thousands of years. Lutherism is a late and tiny branch of it. And, by-the-way, the Lutherian church here is almost as gaudy as any other.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2369 by Faith, posted 01-01-2020 3:31 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2371 by Faith, posted 01-02-2020 6:47 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 2374 of 3207 (869563)
01-02-2020 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 2371 by Faith
01-02-2020 6:47 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Faith writes:
I could go on but so what? You'll believe whatever you want to believe and since you grew up Catholic that's where your sympathies lie even if you have rejected it.
Surely you don’t want to be wrong about absolutely everything? Including my deep loathing of the Catholic Church?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2371 by Faith, posted 01-02-2020 6:47 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2377 by Faith, posted 01-02-2020 1:00 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 2378 of 3207 (869572)
01-02-2020 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 2377 by Faith
01-02-2020 1:00 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Faith writes:
Yes you're right of course, I forget you've said you loathe the Catholic Church, so there has to be another reason why you're wrong about their place in history.
You could always try reading some actual history of course. Without it your late coming marginal sect wouldn't even exist.
History of the Catholic Church - Wikipedia

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2377 by Faith, posted 01-02-2020 1:00 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2380 by Faith, posted 01-02-2020 1:09 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 2382 of 3207 (869576)
01-02-2020 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 2380 by Faith
01-02-2020 1:09 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Faith writes:
What you call "actual history" would be what? Catholic apologestics perhaps? I've read, and heard, plenty of actual history which I doubt you have a clue about.
I don't care what you read, just read something that calls itself a history, not a religious tract. The Catholic church founded Christianity and for almost all of antiquity it and Orthodox WAS Christianity. In historical terms, all other Christian sects are minority opinions that would not exist if Catholicism hadn't become an enormous political, military and financial force.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2380 by Faith, posted 01-02-2020 1:09 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2384 by Faith, posted 01-02-2020 1:20 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 2385 of 3207 (869579)
01-02-2020 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 2384 by Faith
01-02-2020 1:20 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
What exactly are you complaining about?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2384 by Faith, posted 01-02-2020 1:20 PM Faith has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 2404 of 3207 (869652)
01-03-2020 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 2403 by Faith
01-03-2020 10:39 AM


Re: Judgment is just punishment, murder is unjust killing.
Faith writes:
People just don't know how to think any more.
People don't know how to think like a mad mediaeval pope, that's true. (Well most of us anyway.)

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2403 by Faith, posted 01-03-2020 10:39 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2406 by Faith, posted 01-03-2020 10:53 AM Tangle has not replied

  
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