Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 84 (8936 total)
244 online now:
Minnemooseus (Adminnemooseus), ramoss (2 members, 242 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: martygraham
Post Volume: Total: 861,912 Year: 16,948/19,786 Month: 1,073/2,598 Week: 319/251 Day: 47/43 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
ringo
Member
Posts: 17300
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 2236 of 2309 (862387)
09-04-2019 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 2235 by Stile
09-04-2019 1:01 PM


Re: When specifics are required
Stile writes:

If you refuse to share (as you've done for over 2000 messages now...)....


I've asked you to show that the idea of God is inherently irrational and (I think) you've admitted that it is not. So the whole "no link to reality" thing is irrelevant.

“Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2235 by Stile, posted 09-04-2019 1:01 PM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2237 by Stile, posted 09-04-2019 1:27 PM ringo has responded

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 3846
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 2237 of 2309 (862393)
09-04-2019 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 2236 by ringo
09-04-2019 1:08 PM


Re: When specifics are required
ringo writes:

I've asked you to show that the idea of God is inherently irrational and (I think) you've admitted that it is not. So the whole "no link to reality" thing is irrelevant.

How so?

There are an infinite number of imagination-only ideas that are not inherently irrational - and they have no link to reality so therefore do not exist.
Like Santa Claus.
And Luminiferous Ether.
And winged horses, and unicorn winged horses, and 2-horned winged horses, and 3-horned winged horses, and 4-horned winged horses... do not exist.

God is in the exact same position.
All inherently rational (the idea can exist as imagination and is not self-contradictory like a square-circle)
Nothing but imagination and ideas.
No link to reality.

I know Santa Claus does not exist.
I know Luminiferous Ether does not exist.
I know winged horses, and unicorn winged horses, and 2-horned winged horses, and 3-horned winged horses, and 4-horned winged horses... do not exist.
I know God does not exist.

When there's no link to reality from the imagination, the idea can be ignored as "unreasonable to consider" - just like the idea that we'll find out behind Dark Matter that ringo can't bake cakes and never could. Not inherently irrational. Just no link to reality.

If you think it's irrelevant - you're back to not being able to know that ringo can bake cakes.
If you accept that it's relevant - the objective argument shows that "I know God does not exist" is a valid statement. Unless you'd like to describe the "rational link to reality" for God that no one else knows about?

All for all the same reasons.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2236 by ringo, posted 09-04-2019 1:08 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2238 by ringo, posted 09-04-2019 1:45 PM Stile has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 17300
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 2238 of 2309 (862394)
09-04-2019 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 2237 by Stile
09-04-2019 1:27 PM


Re: When specifics are required
Stile writes:

There are an infinite number of imagination-only ideas that are not inherently irrational - and they have no link to reality so therefore do not exist.
Like Santa Claus.
And Luminiferous Ether.


We did not pretend to "know" the luminiferous ether did not exist until the search for it reached a definitive conclusion.

“Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2237 by Stile, posted 09-04-2019 1:27 PM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2240 by Stile, posted 09-04-2019 2:55 PM ringo has responded
 Message 2241 by AZPaul3, posted 09-04-2019 3:25 PM ringo has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4512
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 2239 of 2309 (862397)
09-04-2019 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 2230 by Thugpreacha
09-04-2019 11:00 AM


Re: When specifics are required
I have no idea what this means or how it relates.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2230 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-04-2019 11:00 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 3846
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 2240 of 2309 (862400)
09-04-2019 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 2238 by ringo
09-04-2019 1:45 PM


Re: When specifics are required
ringo writes:

We did not pretend to "know" the luminiferous ether did not exist until the search for it reached a definitive conclusion.

Just like God!
A definitive conlcusion 'based on our available information' - because no knowledge is based on information we don't have.

I assume you would agree that there's only unreasonable doubt that we might find luminiferous ether behind Dark Matter?
Just like God!

Thanks for agreeing with my method and conclusion.

Edited by Stile, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2238 by ringo, posted 09-04-2019 1:45 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2246 by ringo, posted 09-05-2019 11:47 AM Stile has responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4512
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 2241 of 2309 (862402)
09-04-2019 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 2238 by ringo
09-04-2019 1:45 PM


Re: When specifics are required
We did not pretend to "know" the luminiferous ether did not exist until the search for it reached a definitive conclusion.

Has it reached a definitive conclusion? Have you look in the dark matter and in the northwest passage?


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2238 by ringo, posted 09-04-2019 1:45 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2247 by ringo, posted 09-05-2019 11:54 AM AZPaul3 has responded

  
AlexCaledin
Member
Posts: 56
From: Samara, Russia
Joined: 10-22-2016


Message 2242 of 2309 (862429)
09-05-2019 7:55 AM


Let's be honest. The Atheist worldview is plagued by doubts and futile ambitions and has the great God-shaped hole at the very base of science, namely the Quantum Choice problem. The Theistic worldview is perfectly consistent and in full accordance with all the facts, particularly with personal religious life. The difference between religions works as the trap for human passions.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2243 by Tangle, posted 09-05-2019 8:01 AM AlexCaledin has not yet responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7068
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 2243 of 2309 (862430)
09-05-2019 8:01 AM
Reply to: Message 2242 by AlexCaledin
09-05-2019 7:55 AM


That’s the stupidest thing I’ve heard this month. Bravo.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2242 by AlexCaledin, posted 09-05-2019 7:55 AM AlexCaledin has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2244 by vimesey, posted 09-05-2019 8:28 AM Tangle has responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 983
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 8.7


(1)
Message 2244 of 2309 (862432)
09-05-2019 8:28 AM
Reply to: Message 2243 by Tangle
09-05-2019 8:01 AM


I don't know - Boris has been spouting a lot this month too.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2243 by Tangle, posted 09-05-2019 8:01 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2245 by Tangle, posted 09-05-2019 9:01 AM vimesey has not yet responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7068
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.5


(2)
Message 2245 of 2309 (862436)
09-05-2019 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 2244 by vimesey
09-05-2019 8:28 AM


That's fair

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2244 by vimesey, posted 09-05-2019 8:28 AM vimesey has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17300
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 2246 of 2309 (862452)
09-05-2019 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 2240 by Stile
09-04-2019 2:55 PM


Re: When specifics are required
Stile writes:

A definitive conlcusion 'based on our available information' - because no knowledge is based on information we don't have.


No. Our available information is that there are places where we have not looked, so no definitive conclusion has been reached.

Stile writes:

Thanks for agreeing with my method and conclusion.


I have never disagreed with your methodology or your conclusion. I only disagree with your terminology. Claiming you know (not A) when you don't know A is incorrect. You're pretty sure about (not A). You don't know.

“Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2240 by Stile, posted 09-04-2019 2:55 PM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2255 by Stile, posted 09-06-2019 9:55 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17300
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 2247 of 2309 (862453)
09-05-2019 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 2241 by AZPaul3
09-04-2019 3:25 PM


Re: When specifics are required
AZPaul3 writes:

ringo writes:

We did not pretend to "know" the luminiferous ether did not exist until the search for it reached a definitive conclusion.


Has it reached a definitive conclusion?

Michelson and Morley had a method for detecting the ether. So far, the search for God is at a stage before Michelson and Morley, so it's premature to make a conclusion that Michelson and Morley didn't make until after their experiments.

“Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2241 by AZPaul3, posted 09-04-2019 3:25 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2248 by AZPaul3, posted 09-05-2019 12:41 PM ringo has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4512
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 2248 of 2309 (862461)
09-05-2019 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 2247 by ringo
09-05-2019 11:54 AM


Re: When specifics are required
So far, the search for God is at a stage before Michelson and Morley

The search for God is at a stage many hundreds of millions of iterations and many thousands of years beyond Michelson-Morley.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2247 by ringo, posted 09-05-2019 11:54 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2249 by ringo, posted 09-05-2019 1:05 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17300
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 2249 of 2309 (862469)
09-05-2019 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 2248 by AZPaul3
09-05-2019 12:41 PM


Re: When specifics are required
AZPaul3 writes:

ringo writes:

So far, the search for God is at a stage before Michelson and Morley


The search for God is at a stage many hundreds of millions of iterations and many thousands of years beyond Michelson-Morley.

Name one experiment that has been done that is equivalent to Michelson-Morley.

“Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2248 by AZPaul3, posted 09-05-2019 12:41 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2250 by AZPaul3, posted 09-05-2019 1:42 PM ringo has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4512
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 2250 of 2309 (862486)
09-05-2019 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 2249 by ringo
09-05-2019 1:05 PM


Re: When specifics are required
The search for gods has taken many forms over many millennia. In each and every instance nothing has ever been found.

You're an intelligent person, ringo. I'm pretty sure you made your own search for the gods. How did that turn out for you?


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2249 by ringo, posted 09-05-2019 1:05 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2251 by ringo, posted 09-05-2019 5:21 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019