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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
ringo
Member
Posts: 18019
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 2311 of 2469 (863962)
10-03-2019 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 2310 by Stile
10-03-2019 2:37 PM


Re: When specifics are required
Stile writes:

The rest of us do it quite safely, and quite often.


But not to the point where you can say you know that cars do not exist. You're only looking in one very limited place.

Stile writes:

I've shown you all the rational tests that have been done.

Looking for God, pretty much everywhere, and never finding Him.


But you haven't - not one single, solitary test that would pass scientific muster. You haven't even specified what "detection of God" would look like.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2310 by Stile, posted 10-03-2019 2:37 PM Stile has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 2312 by Phat, posted 10-03-2019 6:30 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13790
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 2312 of 2469 (863963)
10-03-2019 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 2311 by ringo
10-03-2019 4:35 PM


Re: When specifics are required
Perhaps its a bit like looking for a lost hiker in the wilderness. As each day passes, there is a decreasing chance that they are alive or found a spot in which to survive. ringo points out that we can and should keep looking as life has value. John declares that In Him is Life and that Life is the Light of Men. Stile and ringo both may point out that many without His "Light" supposedly do quite well with their own "Light".

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2311 by ringo, posted 10-03-2019 4:35 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13790
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 2313 of 2469 (869154)
12-24-2019 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1259 by ringo
07-13-2019 11:46 AM


Re: The Rationality Of Irrationality
And on it goes.
Phat writes:

Granted you take the message more serious than I do in that you are an ardent proponent of cultural Marxism, or Socialism, or Communism, or whatever you (or we) choose to name it.

ringo writes:

I call it being a decent human being.

Do Christianity and Marxism Have Anything In Common?

Forbes writes:

Frederick Engels, Karl Marx's sidekick, and benefactor eulogized that Marx's greatest insight was, "men must first of all eat, drink, have shelter and clothing before they can pursue politics, science, art, religion and the like."

Jesus asserted the opposite disavowing that faith is predicated on bodily well-being, "Therefore do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' . . . But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness" (Matthew 6:31-33).


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1259 by ringo, posted 07-13-2019 11:46 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2314 by ringo, posted 12-24-2019 11:51 AM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 2315 by jar, posted 12-24-2019 12:07 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18019
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 2314 of 2469 (869156)
12-24-2019 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 2313 by Phat
12-24-2019 11:42 AM


Re: The Rationality Of Irrationality
Phat writes:

Do Christianity and Marxism Have Anything In Common?


You keep assuming I'm a Marxist. I'm not.

You're more of a Marxist than I am with your predictions of class struggles in the future.


"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2313 by Phat, posted 12-24-2019 11:42 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32376
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


(3)
Message 2315 of 2469 (869158)
12-24-2019 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 2313 by Phat
12-24-2019 11:42 AM


The peril of proof texts.
Once again you just pick the pieces parts you want and ignore those parts of the Bible that refute your desired position.

Have you ever actually Read Matthew 6?

Does it not begin with Jesus telling folk how to go about giving alms for others. Does it not admit that we all need food, shelter, clothing, protection? Does it not say we need to stop hoarding money for ourselves? Does it not say we need to not worship mammon?

Does Matthew 6 not say that it's the little things we do, not for praise or profit that count?

Stop living by the conjob Proof Texts. Stop just picking out the whole potato chips or center of the watermelon, stop just picking the pieces out of the Bible that support your desires and look at the whole body of writings.

And remember, Matthew 6:31-33 is NOT Matthew. Matthew is 28 Chapters long, not 3 lines.

And you will find contradictions between different parts since the author of Matthew was taking material from Mark and at least one other source and even changing and modifying pieces parts to change the emphasis and meanings and product from what Mark marketed to what the author of Matthew wished to market.

Read what is actually written and learn the subtle differences in what was being promoted.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2313 by Phat, posted 12-24-2019 11:42 AM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2316 by Sarah Bellum, posted 12-29-2019 9:14 PM jar has responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 488
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 2316 of 2469 (869403)
12-29-2019 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 2315 by jar
12-24-2019 12:07 PM


Re: The peril of proof texts.
Of course, if there are problems with contradictions in the book that is said to be the Word of God, how do we know what the word really is?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2315 by jar, posted 12-24-2019 12:07 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2317 by jar, posted 12-30-2019 7:46 AM Sarah Bellum has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32376
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 2317 of 2469 (869408)
12-30-2019 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 2316 by Sarah Bellum
12-29-2019 9:14 PM


Re: The peril of proof texts.
SB writes:

Of course, if there are problems with contradictions in the book that is said to be the Word of God, how do we know what the word really is?

We use logic, reason and reality to test what is written.

Does a writing point to a model that is of use to all? Does it provide a moral guide to a functioning society? Does the writing teach us how to live today in harmony with other people, things and the environment itself?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2316 by Sarah Bellum, posted 12-29-2019 9:14 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2318 by Sarah Bellum, posted 12-30-2019 10:43 AM jar has not yet responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 488
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 2318 of 2469 (869417)
12-30-2019 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 2317 by jar
12-30-2019 7:46 AM


Re: The peril of proof texts.
I like that idea: the parts of your bible that offend our reason are to be discarded, the remainder given due consideration!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2317 by jar, posted 12-30-2019 7:46 AM jar has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2319 by Faith, posted 12-30-2019 10:47 AM Sarah Bellum has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 35184
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2319 of 2469 (869419)
12-30-2019 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 2318 by Sarah Bellum
12-30-2019 10:43 AM


Re: The peril of proof texts.
So let's see, if our reason is "offended by" the idea of the supernatural, then we throw out those parts of the Bible, as Jefferson did. So we'll never know if the supernatural is real in relation to its events, and the Bible is one of the few documents that reveal it to us. That's a certain way to keep us grounded in ignorance I'd say.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2318 by Sarah Bellum, posted 12-30-2019 10:43 AM Sarah Bellum has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2320 by ringo, posted 12-30-2019 10:57 AM Faith has responded
 Message 2322 by jar, posted 12-30-2019 11:06 AM Faith has responded
 Message 2329 by Sarah Bellum, posted 12-30-2019 1:43 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18019
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 2320 of 2469 (869420)
12-30-2019 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 2319 by Faith
12-30-2019 10:47 AM


Re: The peril of proof texts.
Faith writes:

So that we we'll never know if the supernatural is real since the Bible is one of the few documents that reveal it to us.


If that was true, it should be a clue to you: If only one guy saw a unicorn, he might well be mistaken.

But of course it isn't true. Every religion has its own documents that "reveal the supernatural".


"If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...."
-- Rudyard Kipling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2319 by Faith, posted 12-30-2019 10:47 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2321 by Faith, posted 12-30-2019 11:05 AM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 35184
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2321 of 2469 (869421)
12-30-2019 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 2320 by ringo
12-30-2019 10:57 AM


Re: The peril of proof texts.
Actually they don't, they may assert it but they don't reveal it. Not that it would matter anyway since the Bible doesn't have to be the only source of such information. But the Bible specifically describes events in terms of the supernatural AND it reports multiple witnesses of such events besides claiming to be written by direct witnesses. I don't care if you want to believe other accounts of the supernatural, but my point here is very simple. We're talking about the Bible only and one of its elements that "reason" tends to discard is its supernatural accounts, Thomas Jefferson being one famous supposed rationalist who discarded them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2320 by ringo, posted 12-30-2019 10:57 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2327 by ringo, posted 12-30-2019 11:28 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32376
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 2322 of 2469 (869422)
12-30-2019 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 2319 by Faith
12-30-2019 10:47 AM


Re: The peril of proof texts.
Faith writes:

So let's see, if our reason is "offended by" the idea of the supernatural, then we throw out those parts of the Bible, as Jefferson did. So we'll never know if the supernatural is real in relation to its events, and the Bible is one of the few documents that reveal it to us.

That is silly Faith, really silly. The Bible reveals nothing in the first place and it certainly cannot reveal anything supernatural.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2319 by Faith, posted 12-30-2019 10:47 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2323 by Faith, posted 12-30-2019 11:09 AM jar has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 35184
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2323 of 2469 (869425)
12-30-2019 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 2322 by jar
12-30-2019 11:06 AM


Re: The peril of proof texts.
the Bible reveals the parting of the Red Sea, the bringing to life of a dead child, the virgin conception of the Messiah, the turning of water into wine, the resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ, the instantaneous transportation of Philip to talk with the Ethiopian eunuch, and that's just a few off the top of my head.,

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2322 by jar, posted 12-30-2019 11:06 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2324 by jar, posted 12-30-2019 11:11 AM Faith has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32376
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 2324 of 2469 (869427)
12-30-2019 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 2323 by Faith
12-30-2019 11:09 AM


Re: The peril of proof texts.
Yawn.

No Faith, the Bible does not reveal those things. It claims and asserts those things.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2323 by Faith, posted 12-30-2019 11:09 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2325 by Faith, posted 12-30-2019 11:14 AM jar has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 35184
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2325 of 2469 (869428)
12-30-2019 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 2324 by jar
12-30-2019 11:11 AM


Re: The peril of proof texts.
It describes them within a historical framework. If you want to get all silly semantic about it I don't care, but that's what I mean by its revealing them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2324 by jar, posted 12-30-2019 11:11 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2326 by jar, posted 12-30-2019 11:21 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 2328 by Theodoric, posted 12-30-2019 12:41 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
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