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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6951
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 2431 of 2467 (869893)
01-07-2020 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 2430 by Thugpreacha
01-05-2020 3:59 PM


Re: Moving To Faith & Belief Topic
Wouldn't it better to use science arguments. It seems to me to be a weenie move to move this out so that you can use lame nonscientific arguments. But it does show you have no actual arguments.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2430 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-05-2020 3:59 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2432 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-07-2020 3:08 PM Theodoric has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13528
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 2432 of 2467 (869894)
01-07-2020 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 2431 by Theodoric
01-07-2020 3:02 PM


Re: Moving To Faith & Belief Topic
Theo writes:

But it does show you have no actual arguments.

And you have no actual beliefs. I don't defend religious belief with facts or evidence. To me, those are irrelevant arguments. To you, I have empty beliefs. Hence why we never agree.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
"~Thugpreacha

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
"You may not like it, but the dog bites both ankles."~Tangle


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2431 by Theodoric, posted 01-07-2020 3:02 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2433 by Theodoric, posted 01-07-2020 3:34 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6951
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 2433 of 2467 (869896)
01-07-2020 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 2432 by Thugpreacha
01-07-2020 3:08 PM


Re: Moving To Faith & Belief Topic
And you have no actual beliefs.

Again you misrepresent reality. I have lots of beliefs. I have very strong beliefs on moral and ethical behavior. I have very strong beliefs that all people should be treated fairly and without discriminatory prejudice. I have very strong beliefs in justice and right and wrong.
What I don't have is a belief in the supernatural. Supernatural includes some sort of god.
So how about you stop telling lies about me.

I don't defend religious belief with facts or evidence.

You don't defend them with arguments at all. You string words together that look impressive, but if you actually took a moment to be objective and read what you claim are arguments, you would see they are just word salad and empty platitudes.

Whenever you say things like "being one with christ" or "the living christ", why don't you take some time and think about what that means. Then try to explain it in a way that someone that has never heard of jesus christ can understand what you mean. If you can not do that, then those words and terms actually mean nothing. You are just repeating bullshit that apologists have been spouting for years.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2432 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-07-2020 3:08 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 487
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 2434 of 2467 (869938)
01-08-2020 9:29 PM
Reply to: Message 2428 by ringo
01-05-2020 1:05 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
See message 2420.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2428 by ringo, posted 01-05-2020 1:05 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2438 by ringo, posted 01-09-2020 10:39 AM Sarah Bellum has responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 487
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 2435 of 2467 (869939)
01-08-2020 9:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1952 by ringo
08-07-2019 11:46 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Guess that's why you're a bit evasive on this logic/deity topic?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1952 by ringo, posted 08-07-2019 11:46 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2439 by ringo, posted 01-09-2020 10:41 AM Sarah Bellum has responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 487
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 2436 of 2467 (869942)
01-08-2020 9:51 PM
Reply to: Message 1951 by ringo
08-07-2019 11:45 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Anybody who reads the thread can see that that isn't true. You're the one who refuses to answer questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1951 by ringo, posted 08-07-2019 11:45 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2440 by ringo, posted 01-09-2020 10:43 AM Sarah Bellum has responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 487
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 2437 of 2467 (869943)
01-08-2020 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1950 by ringo
08-07-2019 11:42 AM


Re: Protestant is Evil
You're not seriously claiming that the idea that two people born in the same location, at the same time, have the same life predicted for them by star charts is a rational idea?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1950 by ringo, posted 08-07-2019 11:42 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2441 by ringo, posted 01-09-2020 10:49 AM Sarah Bellum has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17817
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 2438 of 2467 (869947)
01-09-2020 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 2434 by Sarah Bellum
01-08-2020 9:29 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Sarah Bellum writes:

See message 2420.


I did see message 2420 and I replied to it. You asserted that the idea of gods is illogical. You didn't mention a single specific logical error in the idea.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2434 by Sarah Bellum, posted 01-08-2020 9:29 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2447 by Sarah Bellum, posted 01-10-2020 6:27 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17817
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 2439 of 2467 (869948)
01-09-2020 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 2435 by Sarah Bellum
01-08-2020 9:31 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Sarah Bellum writes:

Guess that's why you're a bit evasive on this logic/deity topic?


How am I being evasive?

You're the one who's being evasive by refusing to answer a simple question: What are the specific logical errors in the idea of gods?

Just answer the question.


"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2435 by Sarah Bellum, posted 01-08-2020 9:31 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2443 by Sarah Bellum, posted 01-09-2020 10:03 PM ringo has responded
 Message 2448 by Sarah Bellum, posted 01-10-2020 6:32 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17817
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 2440 of 2467 (869949)
01-09-2020 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 2436 by Sarah Bellum
01-08-2020 9:51 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Sarah Bellum writes:

You're the one who refuses to answer questions.


Go ahead and point out a question that i haven't answered.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2436 by Sarah Bellum, posted 01-08-2020 9:51 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2449 by Sarah Bellum, posted 01-10-2020 6:33 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17817
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 2441 of 2467 (869950)
01-09-2020 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 2437 by Sarah Bellum
01-08-2020 9:55 PM


Re: Protestant is Evil
Sarah Bellum writes:

You're not seriously claiming that the idea that two people born in the same location, at the same time, have the same life predicted for them by star charts is a rational idea?


Anybody who reads the thread can see that I am claiming no such thing.

Here's the entire post that you're responding to:

quote:
Sarah Bellum writes:

You can't seriously be claiming that horoscopes are rational?


I said, "You're still confusing wrong with irrational."
Horoscopes are certainly wrong - i.e. not based on reality. But that does not make the idea irrational. That's a separate issue.

If you want to claim that something is irrational, you have to show how it is irrational. You have to show the errors in reasoning. Showing that the conclusion is true doesn't cut it. Your math teacher requires you to show your work. Message 1943



I said quite plainly that, "Horoscopes are certainly wrong - i.e. not based on reality."

Are you a troll?


"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2437 by Sarah Bellum, posted 01-08-2020 9:55 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2442 by Sarah Bellum, posted 01-09-2020 9:53 PM ringo has responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 487
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 2442 of 2467 (869971)
01-09-2020 9:53 PM
Reply to: Message 2441 by ringo
01-09-2020 10:49 AM


Re: Protestant is Evil
quote:
Horoscopes are certainly wrong - i.e. not based on reality. But that does not make the idea irrational. That's a separate issue.
I think we've got to the gist of the problem here! Is it that you're claiming the idea of deity (or horoscopes) is "wrong" but somehow not "irrational"? Forgive me for asking this question, but you seem to be unwilling to give a clear answer.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2441 by ringo, posted 01-09-2020 10:49 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2445 by ringo, posted 01-10-2020 10:41 AM Sarah Bellum has responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 487
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 2443 of 2467 (869972)
01-09-2020 10:03 PM
Reply to: Message 2439 by ringo
01-09-2020 10:41 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
I give you an answer and you ignore it, pretending that I haven't posted an answer. That's the mark of a troll, I'm afraid.

I'll give you another chance though, a simple yes or no question: Is the concept of a deity a rational thing? You don't even have to explain why you think as you do.

(By the way, no fair wiggling out by saying your deity is a girl named Sophie who spins and weaves wool into wonderful tapestries but has no supernatural powers or some other similar dodges.)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2439 by ringo, posted 01-09-2020 10:41 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2444 by Tangle, posted 01-10-2020 4:04 AM Sarah Bellum has responded
 Message 2446 by ringo, posted 01-10-2020 10:54 AM Sarah Bellum has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7282
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


(2)
Message 2444 of 2467 (869979)
01-10-2020 4:04 AM
Reply to: Message 2443 by Sarah Bellum
01-09-2020 10:03 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
SB writes:

Is the concept of a deity a rational thing?

The concept of a deity is rational if it can be supported by rational argument. If the concept of a deity is merely a personal belief it becomes irrational.

In my view (as an atheist) there are perfectly respectable and rational arguments for deities.

But there are far better philosophical arguments for the non-existence of theistic gods and most - if not all - have been disproven by actual evidence or simply disappeared from our cultures.

But I'm happy to allow that my personal disbelief in even a deistic, non-interventionary god is at least, in part, non-rational. That kind of god can not be totally disproven.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2443 by Sarah Bellum, posted 01-09-2020 10:03 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2450 by Sarah Bellum, posted 01-10-2020 6:35 PM Tangle has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17817
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 2445 of 2467 (869982)
01-10-2020 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 2442 by Sarah Bellum
01-09-2020 9:53 PM


Re: Protestant is Evil
Sarah Bellum writes:

Is it that you're claiming the idea of deity (or horoscopes) is "wrong" but somehow not "irrational"?


Yes.

As I have pointed out, "wrong" and "irrational" are not the same thing.

All fiction is "wrong" in that it does not correspond with reality - there are no hobbits and there is no S.P.E.C.T.R.E. But it is not necessarily irrational. Rational but not real.


"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2442 by Sarah Bellum, posted 01-09-2020 9:53 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2454 by Sarah Bellum, posted 01-10-2020 10:33 PM ringo has responded

  
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