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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
ringo
Member
Posts: 18755
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 2596 of 2686 (881113)
08-18-2020 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 2595 by ICANT
08-18-2020 11:07 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
ICANT writes:

Could you give me your definition of time so we can get on the same page as I think I am talking about one thing and you are talking about a totally different thing, or entity.


According to Wikipedia:
quote:
Time is the indefinite continued progress of existence and events that occur in an apparently irreversible succession from the past, through the present, into the future.

Note the word "irreversible". You can't give and take time like you can give and take apples. You can't give away all of tour time and have no time left like you can give away all of your apples and have no apples left.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2595 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2020 11:07 AM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2598 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2020 2:13 PM ringo has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6384
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


(1)
Message 2597 of 2686 (881118)
08-18-2020 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 2590 by ringo
08-17-2020 12:36 PM


Re: After We Die
Hi ringo,

ringo writes:

The Book of the Dead, the Epic of Gilgamesh, the Iliad and Odyssey, the Tao Te Ching, the Edda, the Vedas, the Upanishads, the Tantras, the Qur'an, the Talmud, the Midrash, the Zohar, the Book of Mormon, Dianetics... and those are only the ones I've heard of.

There are only a couple of those books that talk about the one God. Most talk about many Gods and some were written in the last 200 years. Some are very old and are just like the scientist of those years that gave us a flat earth, except they are classified as religious.

ringo writes:

Chapter one, verse two has water before light, verse two has light before sun and moon; verse eleven has plants before sun and moon....

Water existed eternally before Genesis 1:2.

The universe and everything in it was created in the light period of Genesis 1:1.

The only things created in Genesis 1:2-31 was a special fish in verse 21 and mankind in the image of God in verse 27.

There are only 3 creation events recorded in the Bible.
Genesis 1:1 The heavens and the earth were created. According to the Hebrew verb bar which is a perfect verb the action of the subject of the verb (God) created the objects of verb (heavens and the earth) and they were a completed job. Meaning they were ready to be inhabited by mankind.

ברא is in the Hebrew text 45 times 3 of those I mentioned and all the rest are referring back to one of those events.

אשה is in the Hebrew text 2633 times and none of them are translated created.

That is like time/apples they are not the same they are two different things.

ringo writes:

You know as little about translation as you do about science, so your opinions on the matter aren't worth much.

My professor that taught Biblical Greek and Hebrew would disagree with you. I do have a Bible Language Diploma that would disagree also. I have been studying Greek and Hebrew since 1965 but more Hebrew than Greek, as I am very interested in the Creation of this universe in which we live.

And yes my opinion is only my opinion except where it agrees with the Biblical text.
I do not study to satisfy you or any other human I study to show myself approved of God a workman that needeth not be ashamed but rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2590 by ringo, posted 08-17-2020 12:36 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2606 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 8:15 PM ICANT has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6384
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


(1)
Message 2598 of 2686 (881130)
08-18-2020 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 2596 by ringo
08-18-2020 12:20 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi ringo,

ringo writes:

According to Wikipedia:

quote:
Time is the indefinite continued progress of existence and events that occur in an apparently irreversible succession from the past, through the present, into the future.

According to that definition time and existence are the same thing.

How do you measure either one?

ringo writes:

Note the word "irreversible". You can't give and take time like you can give and take apples.

If there had never been an apple tree there would have been no apples I could use for an example.

There had never been time, nor was there time at T=0 therefore time did not exist.

Now if you had clicked on "Time in physics" you would have got the following:

quote:
Time in physics is defined by its measurement: time is what a clock reads

Which brings up my question how do you measure something by itself.

If you were to check through my posts you would find my definition of time.

"Time is what man invented to measure the duration between events in eternity. By dividing up the duration that it takes the earth to make one complete revolution in relation to the sun, into hours, minutes, and seconds."

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2596 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 12:20 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2607 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 8:17 PM ICANT has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6384
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2599 of 2686 (881131)
08-18-2020 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 2594 by Tangle
08-17-2020 4:35 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi Tangle,

Tangle writes:

Where did that god come from ICANT? Where did the ,existing energy come from?

Both are eternal.

You can not create nor destroy energy you can only change its form.

God Bless.


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2594 by Tangle, posted 08-17-2020 4:35 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2600 by Tangle, posted 08-18-2020 3:00 PM ICANT has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7911
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 2600 of 2686 (881135)
08-18-2020 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 2599 by ICANT
08-18-2020 2:20 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
ICANT writes:

Both are eternal.

You can not create nor destroy energy you can only change its form.

You just doubled your problem. Declaring them eternal doesn't solve anything. Two uncaused causes.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2599 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2020 2:20 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2601 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2020 5:35 PM Tangle has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6384
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2601 of 2686 (881153)
08-18-2020 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 2600 by Tangle
08-18-2020 3:00 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi Tantle,

Tangle writes:

You just doubled your problem.

Why do I have a problem. I have a God that has an endless supply of energy.
He does not live in this universe. This universe exists in His universe. Could there be other universes in His universe? I don't see why not but He did not think I needed to know that so He did not tell me if there was or not. But He did tell me a lot about the universe in which I live.

Tangle the scientist is the one that has the problem. He can't believe in a God that can supply all the energy that it took to create this universe. He can't figure out how to get around the natural laws that exist in the universe in order for this universe to pop into existence out of an absence of existence. It is not for the lack of trying or spending billions of dollars trying to prove it did. Science still has the problem that showed up when Hubble discovered the universe was expanding. Which required it to have a beginning to exist because of the laws of thermodynamics that an expanding universe that was eternal in existence would have reached thermal equilibrium a long time ago.

So mankind is like a man that is sitting in a vehicle that the drive axel is elevated such that the tires can't touch the ground/road. It makes no difference how long he drives that vehicle he does not get anywhere. He is still at the place spinning his wheels that he was after Hubble made his discovery.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2600 by Tangle, posted 08-18-2020 3:00 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2602 by Tangle, posted 08-18-2020 5:49 PM ICANT has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7911
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 2602 of 2686 (881154)
08-18-2020 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 2601 by ICANT
08-18-2020 5:35 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
ICANT writes:

This universe exists in His universe

Right, so what created his universe?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2601 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2020 5:35 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2604 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2020 5:58 PM Tangle has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6384
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2603 of 2686 (881155)
08-18-2020 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 2565 by Phat
08-16-2020 10:53 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi Phat,

Phat writes:

I firmly believe that there is a reality after death and hope that I dont end up finding myself a goat.

Why would you make such a statement?

You been drinking too much of jar's and ringo's kool aid.

You can answer that question by email if you want too.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2565 by Phat, posted 08-16-2020 10:53 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6384
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2604 of 2686 (881156)
08-18-2020 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 2602 by Tangle
08-18-2020 5:49 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi Tangle,

Tangle writes:

Right, so what created his universe?

What part of eternal do you not understand?

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2602 by Tangle, posted 08-18-2020 5:49 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2605 by Tangle, posted 08-18-2020 6:03 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7911
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 2605 of 2686 (881157)
08-18-2020 6:03 PM
Reply to: Message 2604 by ICANT
08-18-2020 5:58 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
ICANT writes:

What part of eternal do you not understand?

Like you, that would be all of it.

'Eternal' makes as much sense as 'nothing'. Neither have meaning, both are human inventions that we can't understand using normal language, and in your case you just plonk a god in there so that you don't have to think further about it. The uncaused cause - just further back.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2604 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2020 5:58 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18755
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 2606 of 2686 (881163)
08-18-2020 8:15 PM
Reply to: Message 2597 by ICANT
08-18-2020 1:06 PM


Re: After We Die
ICANT writes:

There are only a couple of those books that talk about the one God.


The point is that they're on the same plane as the Bible.

ICANT writes:

Water existed eternally before Genesis 1:2... blah, blah, blah....


I don't care what contortions you go through to try to explain away the errors. You asked for errors and I gave you errors.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2597 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2020 1:06 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2608 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2020 8:55 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18755
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 2607 of 2686 (881164)
08-18-2020 8:17 PM
Reply to: Message 2598 by ICANT
08-18-2020 2:13 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
ICANT writes:

According to that definition time and existence are the same thing.


It says that time is the PROGRESS of existence.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2598 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2020 2:13 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2610 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2020 10:26 PM ringo has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6384
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2608 of 2686 (881168)
08-18-2020 8:55 PM
Reply to: Message 2606 by ringo
08-18-2020 8:15 PM


Re: After We Die
Hi ringo,

ringo writes:

I don't care what contortions you go through to try to explain away the errors. You asked for errors and I gave you errors.

And I don't care how you slice it or dice it there was nothing created in
Genesis 1:2-31 except one specific kind of water creature that was prepared to transport Jonah around for 3 day's and night's, and mankind in Genesis 1:27.

Show me where anything else was created.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2606 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 8:15 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2609 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 10:20 PM ICANT has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18755
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 2609 of 2686 (881171)
08-18-2020 10:20 PM
Reply to: Message 2608 by ICANT
08-18-2020 8:55 PM


Re: After We Die
ICANT writes:

Show me where anything else was created.


I showed you where the science errors are. That's what we were talking about. Your nit-picking erroneous interpretation of the words is a different topic.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2608 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2020 8:55 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2612 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2020 11:05 PM ringo has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6384
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2610 of 2686 (881172)
08-18-2020 10:26 PM
Reply to: Message 2607 by ringo
08-18-2020 8:17 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi ringo,

ringo writes:

It says that time is the PROGRESS of existence.

Existence has no progress and can not be measured. The only measurement of existence is "NOW".

Duration between events can be measured with the concept of time.

Example:
You go out and place two stakes 100 yards apart.
You want to know how long it will take you to run from 1 stake to the other.

How do you measure the duration between takeoff at the first stake and arrival at the second stake?

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2607 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 8:17 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2611 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 10:30 PM ICANT has responded

  
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