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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
Phat
Member
Posts: 14719
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2656 of 2686 (881694)
08-27-2020 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 2655 by ringo
08-27-2020 12:42 PM


Re: WHO WHAT WHEN and WHERE
Phat writes:

The Creator of all seen and unseen would logically be called a WHAT were it not for the human Jesus Christ who scripture tells us was in the beginning with God.


ringo writes:

Scripture doesn't say that. Apologists do.

Is not the Gospel of John classified as scripture?
John 1:1-3-NKJV writes:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God.

The Word is Jesus Christ. Care to argue?
John 1:10-13 writes:

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


It is obvious.
Both scriptures are talking about Jesus Christ.

And note that as many as received Him to them He gave the right to become children of God. Not simply everybody. Everybody did not receive Him.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2655 by ringo, posted 08-27-2020 12:42 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2657 by ringo, posted 08-27-2020 9:31 PM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18809
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 2657 of 2686 (881718)
08-27-2020 9:31 PM
Reply to: Message 2656 by Phat
08-27-2020 3:21 PM


Re: WHO WHAT WHEN and WHERE
Phat writes:

The Word is Jesus Christ. Care to argue?


Of course. "The word" is the message.

Phat writes:

It is obvious.


Nope. Not at all.

Phat writes:

And note that as many as received Him to them He gave the right to become children of God.


That ties in with Matthew 25. The ones who recieved the message, the ones who lived the message, became the children of God. The ones who only mouthed, Lord! Lord!, the ones like you who rejected the Word (message), did not become the children of God.

Phat writes:

Not simply everybody. Everybody did not receive Him.


You don't know that. Nobody can know that until the judgement.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2656 by Phat, posted 08-27-2020 3:21 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2658 by Phat, posted 08-28-2020 2:29 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14719
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2658 of 2686 (881741)
08-28-2020 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 2657 by ringo
08-27-2020 9:31 PM


Re: WHO WHAT WHEN and WHERE
That scripture does not refer to the message. The message would never be described as a "He".

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2657 by ringo, posted 08-27-2020 9:31 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2661 by ringo, posted 08-28-2020 9:07 PM Phat has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6388
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


(1)
Message 2659 of 2686 (881742)
08-28-2020 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 2654 by ringo
08-27-2020 12:37 PM


Re: [qs=Re: After We Die
Hi ringo,

ringo writes:

Anybody can see that living things die if they lose too much blood.

Why do you die if you lose too much blood?

Bleeding people was the scientific way of curing all kinds of sickness until it was discovered what the circulatory system does.

The circulatory system was discovered in 1628 by an English anatomist William Harvey.

The 1923 edition of the Principles and Practice of Medicine recommended bloodletting and was a widely used text in the training of physicians.

Finally it was discovered that the blood transports energy and oxygen and removes the waste from the cells.

So the blood is not the life of the flesh but the life of the flesh is in the blood, the energy and oxygen required for existence.

Moses was correct. If you disagree give your reasons the life of the flesh is not in the blood.

ringo writes:

A circle is flat.

Are you saying the earth is flat?

ringo writes:

Curtains and tents don't expand. They unfold.

Have you ever slept on at tent? I have slept in one, first I unfolded it and spread it out, then I expanded it so I would not have to sleep laying on the ground on top of it. After I expanded it I was able to go inside and set up my cot and enjoy. Just like the universe was expanded.

ringo writes:

It doesn't say that. It says the WATER was in one place

Well if it was all in one place there was none one the land anywhere. Which would have made the land in one place.

ringo writes:

That isn't about land masses. It's a just-so story about why people speak different languages.

The earth is not people.

quote:
11:4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.

11:5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.

11:6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

11:8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

11:9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.


He scattered them abroad across the earth. He did not divide them.

ringo writes:

He gave three different difinitions in Genesis 1-2.

What three definitions?

ringoYou know nothing about the Hebrew language.

Then take any scripture I have commented on in the last 10 years using the Hebrew language and show me where what I said was wrong. Especially since you know so much about it.

ringo writes:

That doesn't give you any expertise in the Hebrew language

Well my teachers who taught me enough for me to receive a Bible Language degree would probably disagree with you. But you wouldn't believe them as you don't believe anyone but ringo as you are your own God and know everything.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2654 by ringo, posted 08-27-2020 12:37 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2660 by DrJones*, posted 08-28-2020 4:48 PM ICANT has responded
 Message 2662 by ringo, posted 08-28-2020 9:33 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2153
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004


Message 2660 of 2686 (881748)
08-28-2020 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 2659 by ICANT
08-28-2020 3:44 PM


Re: [qs=Re: After We Die
Are you saying the earth is flat

no he's saying the earth is not a circle. A circle is a 2d object, the earth is a 3d object. This is elementary grade material.

He scattered them abroad across the earth.

exactly the people were scattered across the earth, doesn't say anything about the earth itself moving.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2659 by ICANT, posted 08-28-2020 3:44 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2675 by ICANT, posted 08-30-2020 4:07 PM DrJones* has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18809
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 2661 of 2686 (881754)
08-28-2020 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 2658 by Phat
08-28-2020 2:29 PM


Re: WHO WHAT WHEN and WHERE
Phat writes:

That scripture does not refer to the message.


Do some Bible study. "The word of the Lord" is a pretty common phrase in both the Old Testament and the New Testament. It clearly refers to actual words - i.e. messages. If you can find a place where it refers to a person, let me know.

It makes sense that the message was around since the beginning. Calling Jesus "the Word" makes no sense.

Phat writes:

The message would never be described as a "He".


The incarnation of the message was a He.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2658 by Phat, posted 08-28-2020 2:29 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2663 by Phat, posted 08-29-2020 5:35 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18809
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 2662 of 2686 (881755)
08-28-2020 9:33 PM
Reply to: Message 2659 by ICANT
08-28-2020 3:44 PM


Re: [qs=Re: After We Die
ICANT writes:

Why do you die if you lose too much blood?


The Bible has no special knowledge about that. It doesn't mention the blood carrying oxygen to the cells. It doesn't mention cells at all.

ICANT writes:

Moses was correct. If you disagree give your reasons the life of the flesh is not in the blood.


He didn't need any special knowledge to know it. Everybody knows it.

ICANT writes:

ringo writes:

A circle is flat.


Are you saying the earth is flat?

The Bible says that God sits on the circle of the earth - i.e. the Bible says the earth is flat.

ICANT writes:

Just like the universe was expanded.


No, not just like the universe. The universe is still expanding. The tent is not.

ICANT writes:

Well if it was all in one place there was none one the land anywhere. Which would have made the land in one place.


No. The water could be in one place with thousands of islands in it.

ICANT writes:

He scattered them abroad across the earth. He did not divide them.


You can't scatter without dividing.

ICANT writes:

What three definitions?


1. The first day, the second day, the third day, etc. (24 hours)
2. The light He called Day (approximately 12 hours) and the darkness He called Night.
3. The "day" of creation (6 twenty-four-hour days).

ICANT writes:

Then take any scripture I have commented on in the last 10 years using the Hebrew language and show me where what I said was wrong.


That's been done many times in every thread you've mentioned Hebrew in.

ICANT writes:

Well my teachers who taught me enough for me to receive a Bible Language degree would probably disagree with you. But you wouldn't believe them as you don't believe anyone but ringo as you are your own God and know everything.


On the contrary, I believe the translators over you.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2659 by ICANT, posted 08-28-2020 3:44 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14719
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2663 of 2686 (881759)
08-29-2020 5:35 AM
Reply to: Message 2661 by ringo
08-28-2020 9:07 PM


Re: WHO WHAT WHEN and WHERE
ringo writes:

The incarnation of the message was a He.

I'll take that statement as a win for both of us!

ringo writes:

Calling Jesus "the Word" makes no sense.

Ill have to study this one a bit more.It makes sense to me, but I cannot yet explain why. Perhaps you can explain why it makes no sense to you.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2661 by ringo, posted 08-28-2020 9:07 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2664 by ringo, posted 08-29-2020 12:16 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18809
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 2664 of 2686 (881762)
08-29-2020 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 2663 by Phat
08-29-2020 5:35 AM


Re: WHO WHAT WHEN and WHERE
Phat writes:

ringo writes:

Calling Jesus "the Word" makes no sense.


Ill have to study this one a bit more.It makes sense to me, but I cannot yet explain why. Perhaps you can explain why it makes no sense to you.

I already gave you a hint: Look up the word "word". Look up phrases like "the word of God" and "the word of the Lord".

They usually refer to actual words. They are in the context of preaching the word, hearing the word, etc. There are a couple of places where the word "word" could be construed as referring to Jesus - but there are also a couple of places where the word AND Jesus are mentioned as if they were two separate things.


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2663 by Phat, posted 08-29-2020 5:35 AM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2665 by Raphael, posted 08-30-2020 12:53 AM ringo has responded

  
Raphael
Member
Posts: 136
Joined: 09-29-2007


(1)
Message 2665 of 2686 (881769)
08-30-2020 12:53 AM
Reply to: Message 2664 by ringo
08-29-2020 12:16 PM


Re: WHO WHAT WHEN and WHERE
Hello friends! Looks like Phat and Ringo are still going around in circles these days . Thought I'd swing by and lo and behold, I found something to weigh in on.

ringo writes:

...There are a couple of places where the word "word" could be construed as referring to Jesus - but there are also a couple of places where the word AND Jesus are mentioned as if they were two separate things.

Seems like Phat has referred to Jesus as "the Word" and ringo feels that makes no sense. It makes sense that this phrase seems like nonsense, ringo, but it actually has history and context within the christian tradition. Most likely what Phat is referring to is John 1:1, which reads,

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. - John 1:1

What John is doing here is really brilliant. He knows his audience live in and value the principles of stoicism. The stoics taught that above all, an "ultimate reason," anima mundi, or "λόγος" permeated and animated the entire universe. Thy thought of reason as having a "soul" of some kind, a supreme "existence" that was above all other forms of flesh.

People of this time period and location would be swimming in stoicism in the same way we swim in modernism and post-modernism today. So John uses this concept, the concept of the λόγος, to essentially say that Jesus Christ is that λόγος, that "ultimate reason," that "soul of the universe" that has always existed and made flesh. He does this to essentially contextualize the gospel to their worldview and speak in language they understand. Some might even say he is attempting to affirm that the way they conceptualize "ultimate reality" speaks to an even higher truth that has been revealed in the form of Jesus.

So yea! Over the years the phrase "The Word" has entered the many forms of "Christianeese" terminology that Christians use without thinking. Hope this makes sense. Hope y'all are well!

- Raph


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2664 by ringo, posted 08-29-2020 12:16 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2666 by jar, posted 08-30-2020 7:22 AM Raphael has not yet responded
 Message 2673 by ringo, posted 08-30-2020 3:23 PM Raphael has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33010
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 2666 of 2686 (881773)
08-30-2020 7:22 AM
Reply to: Message 2665 by Raphael
08-30-2020 12:53 AM


Re: WHO WHAT WHEN and WHERE
Raph writes:

Over the years the phrase "The Word" has entered the many forms of "Christianeese" terminology that Christians use without thinking.

Exactly. It is a sign of Christians turning their brains off.

Edited by jar, : fix quote


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2665 by Raphael, posted 08-30-2020 12:53 AM Raphael has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2667 by Phat, posted 08-30-2020 10:30 AM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14719
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2667 of 2686 (881774)
08-30-2020 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 2666 by jar
08-30-2020 7:22 AM


WORD UP: What does the phrase mean in the Gospel Of John 1:1---->
So when your brain is turned on, do you agree with ringo that calling Jesus "The Word" is silly? Or do you understand why the majority of us believe that Jesus was in fact with GOD and was GOD?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2666 by jar, posted 08-30-2020 7:22 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2668 by jar, posted 08-30-2020 10:51 AM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33010
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 2668 of 2686 (881776)
08-30-2020 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 2667 by Phat
08-30-2020 10:30 AM


Re: WORD UP: What does the phrase mean in the Gospel Of John 1:1---->
Phat writes:

So when your brain is turned on, do you agree with ringo that calling Jesus "The Word" is silly? Or do you understand why the majority of us believe that Jesus was in fact with GOD and was GOD?

I try not to turn my brain off and still see those who think John 1:1 refers to Jesus is silly. To think that was how the author of the Gospel of John meant it to be taken is even sillier.

I understand lots of folk believe very very very silly stuff because they do turn their brains off and in fact check them at the door. Those who agree with you are exactly those who simply denigrate and misrepresent the Bible while claiming to be "Biblical Christians". CCoI fur sur!


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2667 by Phat, posted 08-30-2020 10:30 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2669 by Phat, posted 08-30-2020 10:54 AM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14719
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2669 of 2686 (881777)
08-30-2020 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 2668 by jar
08-30-2020 10:51 AM


Re: WORD UP: What does the phrase mean in the Gospel Of John 1:1---->
OK Professor. What *did* the author of John mean to convey?

By the way you do know that Raphael is now a fulltime Pastor in an established club of Christianity. Sounds as if he studied more than you do. You are a critically thinking skeptic who attempts (though won't succeed) in challenging and changing everything the Bible means. You market a Christless Christianity.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2668 by jar, posted 08-30-2020 10:51 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2670 by jar, posted 08-30-2020 11:05 AM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33010
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 2670 of 2686 (881778)
08-30-2020 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 2669 by Phat
08-30-2020 10:54 AM


Re: WORD UP: What does the phrase mean in the Gospel Of John 1:1---->
Did you read what he wrote in his post Phat?

Do you understand what he posted?

Did you read the part I even quoted?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2669 by Phat, posted 08-30-2020 10:54 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 2671 by Phat, posted 08-30-2020 1:58 PM jar has responded

  
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