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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
Stile
Member
Posts: 4071
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 2761 of 2785 (893429)
04-13-2022 9:22 AM
Reply to: Message 2760 by dwise1
04-10-2022 1:04 PM


dwise1 writes:

I do realize that this OP is mainly to examine discussions of the existence of "God", a topic which is immensely important to theists but only marginally (*yawn*) to atheists.

Yes, I agree.

I don't find it important, but I do find it interesting.

Just like when I play video games - I don't find them important, but I do find them interesting.

In this topic, I wanted to explore the claim "I know God does not exist" and see how valid it was.
Turns out, almost 3000 messages in, I still find the claim to be sufficient for how I understand the word "know" to be used for basically everything else in life.

Sometimes there's rebuttals like "you don't know God doesn't exist - prove it!"
And I don't think there's any reason to run away from such a challenge.

The proof is the same for proving all other negatives - the complete lack of evidence to be found after over-reasonably searching for such evidence.

It then becomes a "standing theory" to "know God doesn't exist" just as we know all sorts of other imagination-only things don't exist.

The "possibility for being wrong" about knowing such a thing is exactly the same for all other things we also "know" - that the current standing theory is based on solid facts and knowledge, and it can be completely and immediately overturned by any identified evidence to the contrary in the future. Of course, if such a future never happens... then the current standing theory grows stronger and stronger...


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urickad
Junior Member
Posts: 1
Joined: 05-05-2022


Message 2762 of 2785 (894254)
05-08-2022 10:53 AM


You should think about coming to God. In fact, the way of life of the members of the community is not much different from the believers of major Christian trends: frequent prayer, attending Sunday services. Special emphasis is placed on the study of the Bible. We believe that every Christian should read the Scriptures every day. I start the morning with coffee and studying psalms. When we read the Bible, our task is to learn a lesson for ourselves from each passage. For us, it is an instruction for life, both spiritual and physical. Believe me, Pentecostals believe will change your life.

Edited by urickad, .


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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6642
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 2763 of 2785 (894255)
05-08-2022 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 2762 by urickad
05-08-2022 10:53 AM


Why should we do that when there is nothing there?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

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Percy
Member
Posts: 20761
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 2764 of 2785 (894256)
05-08-2022 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 2762 by urickad
05-08-2022 10:53 AM


urickad writes:
You should think about coming to God.
Who are you talking to? Is it the general "you," meaning everyone? Or just some of you? Who?
In fact, the way of life of the members of the community is not much different from the believers of major Christian trends: frequent prayer, attending Sunday services.
Members of what community? Are you a member of a community that are not "believers of major Christian trends," and therefore doesn't engage in frequent prayer or attend Sunday services?
--Percy

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nwr
Member
Posts: 5972
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 2765 of 2785 (894257)
05-08-2022 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 2762 by urickad
05-08-2022 10:53 AM


the way of life of the members of the community is not much different
What community?
The early church seems to have practiced Christian communism. What we see today is closer to Christian fascism. They have kept the name "Christian" and they have kept some of the ceremonial rituals. But everything else is changed.
What we see today is not the same religion as practiced by the early Christians.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

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Dredge
Member
Posts: 1347
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 2766 of 2785 (894281)
05-11-2022 1:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Stile
10-10-2012 2:27 PM


quote: "Stile"
I don't believe God doesn't exist, I don't have faith that God doesn't exist, I don't simply have a lack of belief in God. I know that God doesn't exist.
On a scale of 1-10, how happy does it make you to "know" that
God doesn't exist?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Stile, posted 10-10-2012 2:27 PM Stile has replied

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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5074
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 2767 of 2785 (894286)
05-11-2022 2:05 AM
Reply to: Message 2766 by Dredge
05-11-2022 1:33 AM


On a scale of 1-10, how happy does it make you to "know" that
God doesn't exist?
Who cares? How happy does it make you to "know" that Sauron doesn't exist?
It's the religions themselves that we don't accept, not any individual components of those religions (eg, their gods). We reject religions because of the religions, not because of their individual components, so such "issues" as "does a particular god exist" are simply uninteresting and of no concern.

Edited by dwise1, : added last sentence


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Stile
Member
Posts: 4071
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


(2)
Message 2768 of 2785 (894608)
05-24-2022 8:19 AM
Reply to: Message 2766 by Dredge
05-11-2022 1:33 AM


Dredge writes:
On a scale of 1-10, how happy does it make you to "know" that
God doesn't exist?
The same as knowing that Santa doesn't exist.
The magic and wonderful and amazing qualities that are hoped for... but simply do not exist... makes me sad.
I'd say... about a 1.
I think the world would be waaaaaaay better if an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-humanly-compassionate/benevolent God existed.
But, alas, it is not true.
Of course, because it isn't true, the importance of wanting it to be true is also on the same level of Santa... about a 2.
Much better to focus on the things we can change... like living good lives and spreading love to those around us.

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ringo
Member
Posts: 19530
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 2769 of 2785 (894621)
05-24-2022 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 2766 by Dredge
05-11-2022 1:33 AM


Dredge writes:
On a scale of 1-10, how happy does it make you to "know" that
God doesn't exist?
It doesn't give me any satisfaction to know I'm smarter than you.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 20761
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 2770 of 2785 (894627)
05-24-2022 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 2766 by Dredge
05-11-2022 1:33 AM


Dredge writes:
On a scale of 1-10, how happy does it make you to "know" that God doesn't exist?
Depends. What kind of God we talking about here? Are we talking about a vain, jealous, vengeful God who subjects to eternal torture those who don't believe in him? In that case I'm pretty happy he doesn't exist.
But if we're talking about a God who loves his creation so much that he would never subject it to disease, pandemics, drownings, lightning strikes, mass killings, wars, earthquakes, floods, volcanos, hurricanes, asteroid collisions, solar bursts, gamma ray bursts, and so forth, then in that case I am very sorry that he doesn't exist.
--Percy

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Phat
Member
Posts: 15948
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 2771 of 2785 (894634)
05-24-2022 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 2770 by Percy
05-24-2022 1:39 PM


God and Santa
Neither of your two extremes describes the God I believe in. Of course we approach the definition in two different ways. You seem to think that humans invented God and His attributes.
Lets take God vs Santa Claus.
It is obvious that humans invented and defined Santa nd his attribute. There was a lot of "wink wink nudging" going on between parents trying to entertain their children.
As for God within traditional Christianity, there has also been little consensus but the real God is to be found in a loyal and honest adult believer. A Grandma who talks with God every day. Is she delusional? Were she in the middle of a catastrophe would she panic or would she trust the One whom she has prayed to and communicated with for fifty years?
Any skeptic would be beside themselves trying to drum up such an instant connection. They would bargain with, plead with, and need an answer...but only those who have been loyal and consistent for years would find the answer.
Of course, there would also be those who saw the universe as indifferent. They likely believe that reality is what it is and need not include a God.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


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Phat
Member
Posts: 15948
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 2772 of 2785 (894635)
05-24-2022 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 2769 by ringo
05-24-2022 11:57 AM


How So?
How are you smarter than Dredge? What edge do you have?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2769 by ringo, posted 05-24-2022 11:57 AM ringo has replied

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6642
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 2773 of 2785 (894640)
05-24-2022 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 2772 by Phat
05-24-2022 3:25 PM


Re: How So?
What edge do you have?
Ooo! Ooo! Me! Me! I know!
He has sanity.
Do I get a cookie?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3296
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 2774 of 2785 (894641)
05-24-2022 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 2773 by AZPaul3
05-24-2022 6:19 PM


Re: How So?
Hands you a cookie.
And an education based on facts rather than bronze age myths!

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


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ringo
Member
Posts: 19530
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 2775 of 2785 (894659)
05-25-2022 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 2772 by Phat
05-24-2022 3:25 PM


Re: How So?
Phat writes:
How are you smarter than Dredge? What edge do you have?
Critical thinking.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2772 by Phat, posted 05-24-2022 3:25 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2778 by Phat, posted 05-25-2022 8:20 PM ringo has replied

  
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