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Author
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Topic: I Know That God Does Not Exist
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Phat
Member Posts: 18651 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 4.2
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Message 3121 of 3207 (896863)
08-24-2022 2:20 PM
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Reply to: Message 3120 by ringo
08-24-2022 12:15 PM
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Re: Monsters Under The Bed
God is not monster. It is you who is being dishonest You know darn well that none of your friends are being fried. And you Also know that none of the dead baby arguments hold any water.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 3120 by ringo, posted 08-24-2022 12:15 PM | | ringo has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 6.1
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Message 3122 of 3207 (896864)
08-24-2022 2:40 PM
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Reply to: Message 3121 by Phat
08-24-2022 2:20 PM
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Re: Monsters Under The Bed
So you believe your god dude wants babies to die horrible deaths? To what end?
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 3121 by Phat, posted 08-24-2022 2:20 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 3125 by Phat, posted 08-24-2022 3:22 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 670 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 3123 of 3207 (896865)
08-24-2022 3:10 PM
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Reply to: Message 3121 by Phat
08-24-2022 2:20 PM
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Re: Monsters Under The Bed
Phat writes: It is you who is being dishonest
How so? Be specific.
Phat writes: You know darn well that none of your friends are being fried.
I don't know any such thing. I have heard hundreds of preachers say that the "unsaved" will suffer eternal torment. You're the one who is trying to whitewash the evil God that you have created.
Phat writes: And you Also know that none of the dead baby arguments hold any water.
Sure they do. Your "Nuh uh" is what doesn't hold any water. Don't just deny, deny, deny. Make an argument.
"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 3121 by Phat, posted 08-24-2022 2:20 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 3124 by Phat, posted 08-24-2022 3:20 PM | | ringo has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18651 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 4.2
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Message 3124 of 3207 (896866)
08-24-2022 3:20 PM
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Reply to: Message 3123 by ringo
08-24-2022 3:10 PM
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Re: Monsters Under The Bed
I have heard hundreds of preachers say that the "unsaved" will suffer eternal torment. You're the one who is trying to whitewash the evil God that you have created. Stop and think. Why would I create an evil God? The God I worship existed long before you or me Second, just because some preacher brayed that the unsaved will suffer eternal torment, I (being Christian) would pray about it. Actually lay out my fears before God. You claimed that you were once Christian as I am. If so, why do you keep referring back to the character in the book as if He were static and unapproachable? No sane group of people would worship a character in a book if that character was not somehow or in some way alive to them. (and for them) As for the OT vengeful God, note that all manners of death were done by humans. It is humans who are responsible...not God. The same applies today. No nation can simply blame God for what they did in a war.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 3123 by ringo, posted 08-24-2022 3:10 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 3127 by ringo, posted 08-24-2022 3:43 PM | | Phat has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18651 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 4.2
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Re: Monsters Under The Bed
So you believe your god dude wants babies to die horrible deaths? Where did I ever say that?
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 6.1
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Message 3126 of 3207 (896869)
08-24-2022 3:39 PM
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Reply to: Message 3125 by Phat
08-24-2022 3:22 PM
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Re: Monsters Under The Bed
Because that is the logical conclusion. If your god dude is all everything then there is no reason for it to happen.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 3125 by Phat, posted 08-24-2022 3:22 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 3128 by Phat, posted 08-24-2022 6:16 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 670 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 3127 of 3207 (896870)
08-24-2022 3:43 PM
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Reply to: Message 3124 by Phat
08-24-2022 3:20 PM
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Re: Monsters Under The Bed
Phat writes: Stop and think. Why would I create an evil God?
It doesn't matter why. The God you have created is evil by your own description. You call Him the Creator of all things seen and unseen, don't you? So he created the horrible diseases that kill innocent children. Asking why you would create an evil God is like asking why you would rob a bank. Your idea is, "That's a bad thing, so I wouldn't do it." But that doesn't follow.
Phat writes: The God I worship existed long before you or me
That's just empty rhetoric.
Phat writes: Second, just because some preacher brayed that the unsaved will suffer eternal torment...
And quotes scripture to back it up:
quote:
Matthew 25:45-46 ... Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
(Jesus Himself speaking.)
Phat writes: I (being Christian) would pray about it.
Which is why I say you make it up. You think you can pray away what you don't like.
Phat writes: You claimed that you were once Christian as I am. If so, why do you keep referring back to the character in the book as if He were static and unapproachable?
You answered your own question. I used to believe He was approachable but it turns out He isn't. He's made up.
Phat writes: No sane group of people would worship a character in a book if that character was not somehow or in some way alive to them.
You said it, I didn't - You're insane. According to a popular "definition", insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That seems like a pretty good description of believers.
Phat writes: As for the OT vengeful God...
I quoted the NT Jesus.
Phat writes: note that all manners of death were done by humans. It is humans who are responsible...not God.
Nonsense. When did you ever hear of humans using a lake of fire as a murder weapon? Do we need to lobby for lake-of-fire control? The NRA and the SCOTUS will be calling lakes of fire a "militia weapon".
Phat writes: No nation can simply blame God for what they did in a war.
Who said anything about war?
"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 3124 by Phat, posted 08-24-2022 3:20 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 3130 by Phat, posted 08-25-2022 11:48 AM | | ringo has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18651 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 4.2
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Re: Monsters Under The Bed
Thats a free will problem. God does not control what anyone does. Nor should He, in my opinion.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 3129 by Theodoric, posted 08-24-2022 6:55 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 6.1
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Message 3129 of 3207 (896872)
08-24-2022 6:55 PM
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Reply to: Message 3128 by Phat
08-24-2022 6:16 PM
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Re: Monsters Under The Bed
Lol.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 3128 by Phat, posted 08-24-2022 6:16 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18651 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 4.2
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Message 3130 of 3207 (896888)
08-25-2022 11:48 AM
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Reply to: Message 3127 by ringo
08-24-2022 3:43 PM
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Re: Monsters Under The Bed
When did you ever hear of humans using a lake of fire as a murder weapon? The Lake Of Fire was created for Satan and the fallen angels. If anyone gets "murdered" it would be them, though my understanding is that they dont die. Why are you so worried about a monster God who fries your friends? All they have to do is quit following the demons around getting seduced by them *cough* alcohol *cough* and they will never get near such a Lake. Or are you afraid that the only way to steer clear of such a Lake is to be forced to follow Jesus! You want a life where you are free to choose following nobody and sticking with your human friends. And yet you worry that your friends are getting fried. Paranoid much?
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 3127 by ringo, posted 08-24-2022 3:43 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 3131 by ringo, posted 08-25-2022 12:08 PM | | Phat has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 670 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 3131 of 3207 (896890)
08-25-2022 12:08 PM
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Reply to: Message 3130 by Phat
08-25-2022 11:48 AM
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Re: Monsters Under The Bed
Phat writes: The Lake Of Fire was created for Satan and the fallen angels.
Stop it. Don't pretend that I have never read the Bible.
quote:
Matthew 13:41-42 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Do I need to go on?
Phat writes: Why are you so worried about a monster God who fries your friends?
Are you kidding me? Did you just write that? How could I possibly NOT be concerned about a monster criminal who fries ANYBODY?
Phat writes: All they have to do is quit following the demons around getting seduced by them *cough* alcohol *cough* and they will never get near such a Lake.
There you go again, pretending I have never read the Bible.
quote:
Matthew 25:44-46 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Eternal punishment has NOTHING to do with "following demons".
Phat writes: Or are you afraid that the only way to steer clear of such a Lake is to be forced to follow Jesus!
That's what YOU claim. But you have a perverted idea of what it means to "follow Jesus".
Phat writes: You want a life where you are free to choose following nobody and sticking with your human friends. And yet you worry that your friends are getting fried. Paranoid much?
Again, are you fucking kidding me? Did you just fucking write that? It's BECAUSE I put my friends before your monster God that I don't want your monster God to fry my friends. HOW on earth is that paranoid?
"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 3130 by Phat, posted 08-25-2022 11:48 AM | | Phat has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18651 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 4.2
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Message 3132 of 3207 (896892)
08-25-2022 12:32 PM
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Reply to: Message 3131 by ringo
08-25-2022 12:08 PM
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Re: Monsters Under The Bed
ringo writes: Do I need to go on? Not at all. You have framed my response perfectly. Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Ask yourself if any of your "friends" have those qualities. I am destined for the Lake according to being a worker of inequity.
Mr.Dictionary writes: Injustice; unfairness.An instance of injustice or unfairness.Lack of equity or abstract justice; disagreement with equitable principles; injustice; also, an unjust action or proceeding. I always complain about how unfair life is, but by holding back, I myself am a worker of inequity. Unlike you, however, I don't limit my perception and definition of this "God character" as what's in the book. I've never seen Jesus (God's character) as a monster.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 3131 by ringo, posted 08-25-2022 12:08 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 3134 by ringo, posted 08-25-2022 12:44 PM | | Phat has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18651 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 4.2
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Message 3133 of 3207 (896893)
08-25-2022 12:39 PM
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Reply to: Message 3131 by ringo
08-25-2022 12:08 PM
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Re: Monsters Under The Bed
ringo writes: How could I possibly NOT be concerned about a monster criminal who fries ANYBODY? Are you opposed to capital punishment? Would you defend Hitler? If possible, would you be the defense attorney for Lucifer?
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 3131 by ringo, posted 08-25-2022 12:08 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 3135 by ringo, posted 08-25-2022 12:47 PM | | Phat has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 670 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 3134 of 3207 (896894)
08-25-2022 12:44 PM
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Reply to: Message 3132 by Phat
08-25-2022 12:32 PM
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Re: Monsters Under The Bed
Phat writes: Ask yourself if any of your "friends" have those qualities.
Once again, you ignored the entire point of my message. In Message 3130 you claimed that, "The Lake Of Fire was created for Satan and the fallen angels." I pointed out that you were dead wrong.
Phat writes: I don't limit my perception and definition of this "God character" as what's in the book.
I knew you were going to say that. In your monumental arrogance, you think your own made-up Jesus is better than the only actual evidence that we have.
Phat writes: I've never seen Jesus (God's character) as a monster.
You've deliberately made up a Jesus who is not a monster. Your Jesus does not exist outside your own head. That's what we call "delusion".
"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 3132 by Phat, posted 08-25-2022 12:32 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 3137 by Phat, posted 08-25-2022 1:03 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 670 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 3135 of 3207 (896895)
08-25-2022 12:47 PM
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Reply to: Message 3133 by Phat
08-25-2022 12:39 PM
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Re: Monsters Under The Bed
Phat writes: Are you opposed to capital punishment?
Of course. (What did you think I would say?)
Phat writes: Would you defend Hitler?
Yes. Everybody is entitled to a defense.
Phat writes: If possible, would you be the defense attorney for Lucifer?
I have done exactly that in this very forum. Do you have a point?
"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 3133 by Phat, posted 08-25-2022 12:39 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 3136 by Phat, posted 08-25-2022 1:00 PM | | ringo has replied |
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