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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12414
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 511 of 627 (854034)
06-04-2019 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 509 by Theodoric
06-04-2019 10:49 AM


Re: The Fall it was & The Rapture it shall be
I figured you would be one of the first to complain. If you go and continue to listen to heretics such as Richard Carrier (who has no clue that Jesus is real and will continue to be a tool of satan) than you will be fully responsible for your own destiny.

If nothing else, my rants will continue to enrage many, but I will rest easy knowing that I did my job. Perhaps a secular psychiatrist can help my deluded and senile mind.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 509 by Theodoric, posted 06-04-2019 10:49 AM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 513 by ringo, posted 06-04-2019 12:12 PM Thugpreacha has responded
 Message 519 by Theodoric, posted 06-04-2019 1:47 PM Thugpreacha has responded
 Message 546 by dwise1, posted 06-06-2019 2:58 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16626
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 512 of 627 (854044)
06-04-2019 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 507 by Thugpreacha
06-04-2019 10:34 AM


Re: The Fall it was & The Rapture it shall be
Phat writes:

To be fair, however...you (ringo) are looking at the Bible from a critical thinking POV which mainstream apologetics and Christianity does not ascribe to.


Of course I am. That's the only way to look at any Book. That's why the apologists and other hucksters get it wrong so often. They start with "the answers" and twist the Bible to fit them.

Phat writes:

We can either conclude that they are willfully deceived and have an "agenda" (which is nothing more than telling the world that God has a plan and that Jesus is alive) or we can listen to your unenlightened common sense nonsense.


If you could actually point out that what I say is nonsense, you might have something. Why can't you?

Phat writes:

You can call me WRONG and have trumped up evidence to back the accusation up...


You can emulate Trump and claim I have it wrong or you could actually show that my evidence is "trumped up". Why don't you do that?

Phat writes:

... but once the reality manifests on this planet...


You can shove that nonsense. Until it actually happens, that story is no better than Goldilocks and the Three Bears.

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 507 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-04-2019 10:34 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 514 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-04-2019 12:27 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16626
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 513 of 627 (854045)
06-04-2019 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 511 by Thugpreacha
06-04-2019 10:57 AM


Re: The Fall it was & The Rapture it shall be
Phat writes:

If you go and continue to listen to heretics such as Richard Carrier (who has no clue that Jesus is real and will continue to be a tool of satan)....


Seriously, are you not embarrassed to post drivel like that? You should be.

Phat writes:

If nothing else, my rants will continue to enrage many, but I will rest easy knowing that I did my job.


If you think that's your job, you're as deluded as Faith.

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 511 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-04-2019 10:57 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 515 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-04-2019 12:32 PM ringo has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12414
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 514 of 627 (854047)
06-04-2019 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 512 by ringo
06-04-2019 12:07 PM


Re: The Fall it was & The Rapture it shall be
ringo writes:

If you could actually point out that what I say is nonsense, you might have something. Why can't you?

OK, you have me there. You are usually quite sensible and evidence-based. I can't rightfully attack you simply for being a skeptic. All I am suggesting is that there is, in my opinion, something to what the apologists say and have preached for many years. Perhaps one reason why all of this is so confusing is that we are in fact in a spiritual war and the bad guys don't want everyone finding out the truth.
ringo writes:

You can emulate Trump and claim I have it wrong or you could actually show that my evidence is "trumped up". Why don't you do that?

For the record, I am a political moderate. I have no fond feelings for Donald Trump. At best, I think that God may have allowed him to become president only because the people voted that way and also because God allowed "bad kings" to be in power to achieve His overarching purpose in History. To be honest, I think that our economy is due for another major correction (similar to 2007) which will occur within 3-5 years. It may well be that this event will trigger some major cultural and sociological societal shifts. The nutters will be vindicated...but the world will soon tire of the nutters and seek to abolish all religious expression in favor of secular logic, reason, and reality to finally sanely prevail. Which would ordinarily be a good thing...unless the spiritual war is in fact real.

"... but once the reality manifests on this planet..."

ringo writes:

You can shove that nonsense. Until it actually happens, that story is no better than Goldilocks and the Three Bears.

I'm actually glad that one of us is thinking logically (despite being skeptical). I'm glad that you are a contrarian and a skeptic, ringo. It is what makes you who you are. Keep on keepin on...

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 512 by ringo, posted 06-04-2019 12:07 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 516 by ringo, posted 06-04-2019 12:41 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply
 Message 517 by PaulK, posted 06-04-2019 12:46 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12414
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 515 of 627 (854049)
06-04-2019 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 513 by ringo
06-04-2019 12:12 PM


Re: The Fall it was & The Rapture it shall be
ringo writes:

Seriously, are you not embarrassed to post drivel like that? You should be.

Why? Richard Carrier is in fact mentioned indirectly in scripture.

1 John 2:18-27 writes:

Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

24 Let Truth Abide in You

Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that He has promised us -- eternal life.

26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. 27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.
NKJV


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 513 by ringo, posted 06-04-2019 12:12 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 518 by ringo, posted 06-04-2019 12:46 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16626
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 516 of 627 (854050)
06-04-2019 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 514 by Thugpreacha
06-04-2019 12:27 PM


Re: The Fall it was & The Rapture it shall be
Phat writes:

All I am suggesting is that there is, in my opinion, something to what the apologists say and have preached for many years.


Then roll it out, for God's sake. If there's any sense to it at all, you should be able to defend it.

Phat writes:

Perhaps one reason why all of this is so confusing is that we are in fact in a spiritual war and the bad guys don't want everyone finding out the truth.


The reason it's confusing is because the whole belief system is nonsense.

Phat writes:

I have no fond feelings for Donald Trump.


You've been talking just like him lately.

Phat writes:

At best, I think that God may have allowed him to become president...


You'd be better off leaving God out of your thinking once in a while. "God moves in mysterious ways" can be used as an excuse for anything. Next thing we know, you'll be herding Jews into concentration camps because "God allowed it to happen".

Phat writes:

It may well be that this event will trigger some major cultural and sociological societal shifts. The nutters will be vindicated...but the world will soon tire of the nutters and seek to abolish all religious expression....


Please just stop with the stupid "prophecies".

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 514 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-04-2019 12:27 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15037
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 517 of 627 (854053)
06-04-2019 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 514 by Thugpreacha
06-04-2019 12:27 PM


Re: The Fall it was & The Rapture it shall be
quote:

All I am suggesting is that there is, in my opinion, something to what the apologists say and have preached for many years. Perhaps one reason why all of this is so confusing is that we are in fact in a spiritual war and the bad guys don't want everyone finding out the truth.

The problem there is that the apologists are usually the “bad guys” - they don’t want anyone to find the truth.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 514 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-04-2019 12:27 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 16626
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 518 of 627 (854054)
06-04-2019 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 515 by Thugpreacha
06-04-2019 12:32 PM


Re: The Fall it was & The Rapture it shall be
Phat writes:

Why? Richard Carrier is in fact mentioned indirectly in scripture.


John 22 makes an unsubstantiated claim. It's basically saying that anybody who doesn't agree with John is a liar. That sounds just like Faith.

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 515 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-04-2019 12:32 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6264
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 519 of 627 (854057)
06-04-2019 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 511 by Thugpreacha
06-04-2019 10:57 AM


Re: The Fall it was & The Rapture it shall be
There is no evidence for the Jesus Christ of the bible. He never existed. You have had plenty of chances to provide actual verifiable evidence with corroboration but you never have. No one ever has. Because there is no evidence, just faith.

Am I the anti-Christ too? Screw you. The inability of certain christians to deal with people that do not believe as they do should surprise me. It never does. A lot seem to be judgmental hypocrites. Phat, you fit the mold. You claim to be a moderate. You are not. You are fundie. It is a small step from calling people names, to completely dehumanizing them and calling for their heads.

who has no clue that Jesus is real and will continue to be a tool of satan

Both are mythological creatures.

than you will be fully responsible for your own destiny.

As we all are.

If nothing else, my rants will continue to enrage many, but I will rest easy knowing that I did my job.

You have no business being a moderator. Your biases and need to be judgmental shine through.
Take your preaching to a religious site. Some place where people want to here about your fantasies.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 511 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-04-2019 10:57 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 520 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-04-2019 1:53 PM Theodoric has responded

    
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12414
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 520 of 627 (854058)
06-04-2019 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 519 by Theodoric
06-04-2019 1:47 PM


Re: The Fall it was & The Rapture it shall be
Take your preaching to a religious site. Some place where people want to here about your fantasies.

Better yet, simply ignore my posts. Its a bit like changing the channel on TV rather than legislating what people can watch. I could as esily tell you to take your opinions and beliefs to a secular humanist or atheist site, such as Internet Infidels.

Until Percy says otherwise, EvC represents two (or more) diametrically opposed world views. And for the record, I still respect you, Theodoric...though more and more realize why I don't like you.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 519 by Theodoric, posted 06-04-2019 1:47 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 521 by ringo, posted 06-04-2019 2:04 PM Thugpreacha has responded
 Message 522 by Theodoric, posted 06-04-2019 2:11 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16626
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 521 of 627 (854060)
06-04-2019 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 520 by Thugpreacha
06-04-2019 1:53 PM


Re: The Fall it was & The Rapture it shall be
Phat writes:

I could as esily tell you to take your opinions and beliefs to a secular humanist or atheist site, such as Internet Infidels.


See Rule 4:
quote:
Points should be supported with evidence and reasoned argumentation.

Saying, "I believe..." is not supporting with evidence and reasoned argumentation.

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 520 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-04-2019 1:53 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 523 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-04-2019 2:56 PM ringo has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6264
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 522 of 627 (854061)
06-04-2019 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 520 by Thugpreacha
06-04-2019 1:53 PM


Re: The Fall it was & The Rapture it shall be
But we are not acting the same way. This is in the science forums. I believe does not cut it. All you have is protestations of your beliefs and judgement. No facts, no data, no argument.

I used to respect you. Then you became a fundie full of vitriol and judgment. I could ignore you but it doesn't work that way. Back your assertions with data or retract them. Attacking people because they do not share your beliefs is not debate, it is not acceptable. This forum is not for preaching. I am quite sure Percy does not want or expect people to preach on this site. If he does so be it, but since you have decided to be a preacher and attack "heretics" the quality of your posts has nose dived and you have become a caricature of yourself.
I miss the old Phat. He was a nice guy. But alas he no longer exists.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 520 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-04-2019 1:53 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 524 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-04-2019 3:01 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12414
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 523 of 627 (854063)
06-04-2019 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 521 by ringo
06-04-2019 2:04 PM


Re: The Fall it was & The Rapture it shall be
while I will agree that I have no evidence, I would argue that I DO have reasoned argumentation.

And for the record, reasoned argumentation can involve both belief and science.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 521 by ringo, posted 06-04-2019 2:04 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 541 by ringo, posted 06-05-2019 11:45 AM Thugpreacha has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12414
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 524 of 627 (854064)
06-04-2019 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 522 by Theodoric
06-04-2019 2:11 PM


Re: The Fall it was & The Rapture it shall be
This is in the faith & belief forums and serves also as part of my argument here.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 522 by Theodoric, posted 06-04-2019 2:11 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 3505
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 525 of 627 (854067)
06-04-2019 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 505 by Dredge
06-04-2019 3:14 AM


Dredge writes:

Er, yes, you do. You can theorise until the cows come home, but until you die, you don't know that God doesn't exist.

Do you see any issues with the theorizing? Or are you going to avoid an actual discussion again?

quote:
  • How do we "know" things?
    We first start with the assumption that it is possible for us to know anything about the existance we find ourselves in.
    We then take what data we can find and analyze it.

  • How do we "know" negative statements about the existance of things?
    Example: "I know that Sharkfin soup does not exist on McDonald's menu."
    This is a clear example. Obviously the way we know this is to look at McDonald's menu to see if Sharkfin soup is available. If it is is not there, this statement is correct. If it is there, the statement is false.

    Example: "I know that Santa Claus does not exist."
    This is more like the "I know that God does not exist" claim. But, again, the idea is the same as the previous example. We look for where the thing is supposed to be (North Pole? Chimneys during Christmas Eve night?) and see if the thing is there or not. In the case of a 'being', we are also able to check to see if certain things are done that this being is supposed to do (do presents appear underneath Christmas trees or in stockings hung on the fireplace mantle?)

  • But how do we *"know"* for sure-sure's and absolute truth's sake?
    We don't.
    But this is not a problem with "knowing" anything. We can't really ever *"know"* anything, even positive things.
    I drove to work today, it would be extremely rational and reasonable for me to say "I know my car is in the parking lot." Of course I don't
    *"know"* that as it could have been stolen. But saying so is still rational and reasonable. It is rational and reasonable because it is based upon the data I have found and analyzed. In obtaining new data (say, walking outside and noticing my car is missing), it is rational and reasonable to update my position.

  • Therefore, I know that God does not exist.
    I, and many other people, have looked for where God is proposed to exist for almost the entirety of human history. It is possible that "God's existance" is the most looked for thing ever. But no data has ever been obtained that indicates God's existance. We have also analyzed some of the things God has been proposed to have done (world-wide flood, bringing happiness/peace). And, again, the data results are no different than if God does not exist at all.
    Therefore, after obtaining the data and analyzing it, my position is that I know that God does not exist.

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 505 by Dredge, posted 06-04-2019 3:14 AM Dredge has not yet responded

        
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