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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
Faith
Member
Posts: 32133
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1231 of 1288 (857631)
07-09-2019 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1172 by AZPaul3
07-07-2019 8:40 PM


Re: chances
The two different sources of visionary experiences. The spiritual and the sexual.

The latter makes you feel all warm, loving and comfortable inside.

The former makes you fly airplanes into buildings.

As I said, lucky you, but as I also said it's not an either/or. You insist on your wrong understanding of religion.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1172 by AZPaul3, posted 07-07-2019 8:40 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1243 by AZPaul3, posted 07-10-2019 9:28 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 16806
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 1232 of 1288 (857642)
07-09-2019 10:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1227 by Thugpreacha
07-09-2019 3:14 PM


Re: Theology, Philosophy, and Facts vs Fiction
Phat writes:

ringo writes:

The point is that you can't have your "few are chosen" and not have the remaining many go to Hell.


Yes, and thats the way it stands now...for all intents and purposes. You can whine all you want about how God is autocratic, but He has given us the way out and you claim its too forceful and harsh. As if listening to someone besides your own mind would be such an imposition on your cherished free will.

That has nothing to do with what I said.

I said that EITHER you can have your "few are chosen" doctrine AND have millions suffer in Hell - OR you can have your benevolent God giving people chance after chance after chance until they believe. You can NOT have both.


All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1227 by Thugpreacha, posted 07-09-2019 3:14 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16806
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 1233 of 1288 (857643)
07-09-2019 10:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1229 by GDR
07-09-2019 4:34 PM


Re: Theology, Philosophy, and Facts vs Fiction
GDR writes:

are because they are cute and cuddly but because, after quite a lot of study, it is what I subjectively believe to be true.


What I said was, "... unless you're arguing that most will never believe, you're on a completely different page." Are you arguing that most will never believe?

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1229 by GDR, posted 07-09-2019 4:34 PM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1234 by GDR, posted 07-10-2019 1:07 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 4911
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 1234 of 1288 (857648)
07-10-2019 1:07 AM
Reply to: Message 1233 by ringo
07-09-2019 10:30 PM


Re: Theology, Philosophy, and Facts vs Fiction
ringo writes:

What I said was, "... unless you're arguing that most will never believe, you're on a completely different page." Are you arguing that most will never believe?

You're right. I misconstrued what the discussion was about.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
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Dredge
Member
Posts: 1249
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1235 of 1288 (857652)
07-10-2019 1:32 AM
Reply to: Message 1153 by Sarah Bellum
07-07-2019 11:04 AM


Re: chances
Sarah Bellum writes:

You, yourself, believe a highly complex intelligence can develop without being built by some intelligent agency. That is, you believe that your god exists.
If you believe that, you cannot claim it is impossible for our material universe (a thing far less intricate than your god) to develop without being built by some intelligent agency.


This is a very poor argument. We know nothing at all about the properties of God - as opposed to matter, which we can observed, measured and described by physical laws. So to try and compare the two is rather pointless, I’d say ... a bit like comparing “dark matter” to a bicycle. Furthermore, what we know of matter is that it has no life, mind, teleological properties or creative powers.

Can you name a machine (biological or non-biological) that has been observed to build itself?

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1153 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-07-2019 11:04 AM Sarah Bellum has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1238 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-10-2019 8:48 AM Dredge has responded
 Message 1260 by Larni, posted 07-13-2019 1:11 PM Dredge has not yet responded

    
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1249
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1236 of 1288 (857653)
07-10-2019 1:36 AM
Reply to: Message 1183 by dwise1
07-08-2019 2:47 AM


Re: GotGs
I know you didn't write it - that's why I put quotation marks around it. I should have made it clearer that it wasn't your quote - sorry.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1183 by dwise1, posted 07-08-2019 2:47 AM dwise1 has not yet responded

    
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1249
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1237 of 1288 (857654)
07-10-2019 1:43 AM
Reply to: Message 1221 by Theodoric
07-08-2019 2:44 PM


Re: Theology, Philosophy, and Facts vs Fiction
If God knew everything he would get very bored, I should think.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1221 by Theodoric, posted 07-08-2019 2:44 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1239 by Theodoric, posted 07-10-2019 9:03 AM Dredge has not yet responded
 Message 1241 by Pressie, posted 07-10-2019 9:17 AM Dredge has not yet responded

    
Sarah Bellum
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Posts: 224
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 1238 of 1288 (857665)
07-10-2019 8:48 AM
Reply to: Message 1235 by Dredge
07-10-2019 1:32 AM


Re: chances
Since you say your god, unlike matter, cannot be "observed, measured and described by physical laws" there is really nothing to discuss about your god: either it does not exist or it does exist but we have no way of knowing that it exists, which is the same for our purposes here.

Not sure what you mean by "build itself" or how it is relevant here. All life builds copies (or new versions) of itself, but that is, presumably, not quite the same thing.

Let me try to explain the inconsistency of your views.

When you are confronted by the notion that after the formation of the Earth chemical processes, powered by a great deal of energy, either solar or volcanic, eventually developed life, which eventually developed into creatures with self-awareness and intelligence, you say that this couldn't happen unless there was some intelligent agency interfering with the natural world.

That is, you claim that before intelligence can exist, there must be some intelligent agency in existence!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1235 by Dredge, posted 07-10-2019 1:32 AM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1285 by Dredge, posted 07-17-2019 2:14 AM Sarah Bellum has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6393
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 1239 of 1288 (857669)
07-10-2019 9:03 AM
Reply to: Message 1237 by Dredge
07-10-2019 1:43 AM


Re: Theology, Philosophy, and Facts vs Fiction
I thought the god of the christians was omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1237 by Dredge, posted 07-10-2019 1:43 AM Dredge has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 1242 by AZPaul3, posted 07-10-2019 9:18 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2074
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 1240 of 1288 (857670)
07-10-2019 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 1239 by Theodoric
07-10-2019 9:03 AM


Re: Theology, Philosophy, and Facts vs Fiction
Only some. It seems like Dredge's favourite Gods are not omniscient.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1239 by Theodoric, posted 07-10-2019 9:03 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1263 by Dredge, posted 07-15-2019 2:40 AM Pressie has not yet responded

    
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2074
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 1241 of 1288 (857671)
07-10-2019 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 1237 by Dredge
07-10-2019 1:43 AM


Re: Theology, Philosophy, and Facts vs Fiction
Dredge writes:

If God knew everything he would get very bored, I should think.

So, your favourite Spooks are not omniscient?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1237 by Dredge, posted 07-10-2019 1:43 AM Dredge has not yet responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4259
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.7


(2)
Message 1242 of 1288 (857672)
07-10-2019 9:18 AM
Reply to: Message 1239 by Theodoric
07-10-2019 9:03 AM


Re: Theology, Philosophy, and Facts vs Fiction
I thought the god of the christians was omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent?

I thought it was Larry, Curly and Mo.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1239 by Theodoric, posted 07-10-2019 9:03 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1246 by Thugpreacha, posted 07-12-2019 12:11 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4259
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 1243 of 1288 (857674)
07-10-2019 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 1231 by Faith
07-09-2019 5:44 PM


Re: chances
You insist on your wrong understanding of religion.

Oh, I understand religion quite well. Not only have I seen the result of religion's butchery of the human body and of the human spirit I have you and Dredge and Mike-takes-a-Wiz and so many others to remind me of its evil and stupidity.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1231 by Faith, posted 07-09-2019 5:44 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1249
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1244 of 1288 (857840)
07-12-2019 12:02 AM
Reply to: Message 1186 by AZPaul3
07-08-2019 3:15 AM


Re: chances
AZPaul3 writes:

alter boy


What's an "alter boy"?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1186 by AZPaul3, posted 07-08-2019 3:15 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1247 by AZPaul3, posted 07-12-2019 12:12 AM Dredge has responded

    
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1249
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1245 of 1288 (857841)
07-12-2019 12:05 AM
Reply to: Message 1187 by dwise1
07-08-2019 4:27 AM


Re: chances
dwise1 writes:

The bottom line is that evolution generates complexity


The bottom line there is no empirical evidence for this atheist fantasy. No one has ever observed evolution generating complexity.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1187 by dwise1, posted 07-08-2019 4:27 AM dwise1 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1261 by Larni, posted 07-13-2019 1:15 PM Dredge has not yet responded

    
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